Hey,
sorry if this has already come up in a previous thread...

I want this movie to be about the *Transformers*, that universe, those characters, etc. I'd really, really hate it if the directors, producers (no offense Mr. Murphy- I have no clue where you even stand politically) pushed their poitical agenda into this movie. I'm probably paranoid, hopefully. ^^ I've been watching the news about Dr. Rice's talks, and the Presidential inauguration...and it's obvious that both parties are gearing up for another go at one another. So...please keep *Transformers* vague and unafiliated- with either party!

For an example of affiliation: mimicking in the movie recent events in the real world by changing places and names, then making whatever points about said situiations (aka War in Iraq for example) you want to. That's political. People have to deal with figuring out where they stand on these issues in real life, and get plenty of commentary from either side already, so don't put it in *Transformers*- which is essentially escapist in nature.

Okay, that's all! Probably this is just a silly fear- I just don't want to be drawn back into the real world, with all its seriousness, while trying to relax and enjoy a movie that could have a world all its own. ^_^

I guess I could do without overt political references myself...but one small request.

When Megatron does incinerate the White House, could you have a bewildered G-dub look alike standing on the balcony looking up and shitting his pants?

It'd be greatly appreciated (and I think you'd get a standing ovation in the theatre). Its not like conservatives would watch it and complain, we all know that they think giant sentient robots are the spawn of satan sent to corrupt our children with witchcraft and wizardry, they'll have it boycotted already.

Might as well go for the gusto!!

Thanks for the responses guys.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this was good to bring up- being the only thread I've posted and all...^_^

BTW....that was an excellent example of politicizing the movie. Quite a lot of stereotyping going on there, Mr. *EnlightenmentHK*. You do realize, though, that blowing up the White House would effect the entire American nation...not just the President....right? You know....it being a symbol for America, an important place, valued and protected, through much of American history...yada yada. But hey, that's just my opinion. Maybe they should blow up the Washington Monument while they're at it. (sarcasm) Neener.

Besides, the movie ratings really would plumet. Keeping it non-political, in my opinion, will bring in audiences of multiple parties, which means more people overall. Right? On a side note...I wouldn't want to see any leader, be it President Jaques Cheraq, President George Bush, Prime Minister Tony Blair, etc. portrayed in that light. It's distastefull at the very least.

QUOTE (EnlightenmentHK @ Jan 20 2005, 21.44)

When Megatron does incinerate the White House, could you have a bewildered G-dub look alike standing on the balcony looking up and shitting his pants?

Yes, W. can shit RIGHT on John 'Wafflehead' Kerrys face.

Your perseption of the conservatives is a very big misconception.

Conservatives can tell the difference between real and fiction. Just look at Farenhiet 911, LIES LIES LIES.

.......sighs commly........(dont want to start a political debate)...........sighs commly again..........hhhoooooohhhhh

Keep politics out of this movie, period! I don't want this movie to be an anti-Bush parody.

QUOTE (ks68 @ Jan 21 2005, 21.20)

Keep politics out of this movie, period! I don't want this movie to be an anti-Bush parody.

Yeah, I've got to admit this is what I'm really afraid will happen. But...99% of Hollywood is liberal, so it's probably a legitimate worry. And that would completely, completely ruin the movie for me. There! I said it! Or implied it, anyway. Suffice to say, I'm not a Bush hater. There's an entire movie all about Bush hating already out there. People who want that can get it there. People who want *Transformers*, however, should get *Transformers*, if said movie has said title. ^___^

In *Transformers* there is a perfect blend of american, euoropean and japanese cultures and storytelling styles.
In 1984 it was massively ahead of it's time and it's only as the internet has bought us together as a global community that it's time has finaly come, and one look at popculture will tell you it's time HAS come, to stand with Batman and Superman as 21st Century Icons, and we the fans can hold our heads up and say, I was there oh yes, i was there, duriong the darktimes when collegues would mock and laugth nour hobbie and beliittle our hero's, when we had to hang our heads in shame and pretend to be looking at porn while checking import toy reviews on our pc's at work, we shall will march into a new dawn free to proclaim our love for a world of giant transforming space robots, free at last, free at last, free at last..

*ahem*....um yes, anyways.....

Puting real politics in this movie would cheapen it, and deviding the audience would be insane.

71.2% of the entire non pornographic content of the internet is currently devoted to squablling and sniding about bush, we don't need it here, he was elected properlly this time your gonna have to swallow for 4 years and ask why you only have two choices, Somewhere other than here

I fully agree on the whole no politics thing. DIdn't see the harm in tossing in a joke or two on the subject though. With that said...and mind you I'm not a grammar NAZI...but I can't sit idly by and watch this. It makes my eyes bleed.

Calmly. Calmly. Got it?

And Fahrenheit. Actually, that one is harder than it looks, I'll excuse it.

QUOTE (Elbereth @ Jan 21 2005, 20.38)

that blowing up the White House would effect the entire American nation...not just the President....right?

Isn't that what great drama in epic films is occasionally based on, shattering the national confidence? What could be more catastrophic than seeing symbols of our national identity going up in flames? What else could make the threat so real and pressing. Not saying it or anything like it should be used in the film, but it shouldn't be written off as an option.

That said, and I apologize right now, but I am going to turn this into a political debate.

If conservatives are so adept at ferriting out lies, why is that so many of them continue to justify many of their opinions on the Iraqi War upon assumptions that are proven falsehoods?

If they have a monopoly on the truth, why do more 2/3's of them maintain a belief that is as invalid and laughable as the earth being flat?

And Moore's little piece has a lot of valid criticism. Mainly (from my view) it being boring, unengaging, lacking in humor, and not revealing anything really shocking or all that thought provoking...but I'm curious, what specific lies did you notice? He took some known facts and implied plausible assumptions from them. Granted his explanations for those list of facts aren't the only ones available, nor may they even be the best ones, but that doesn't quite make them a lie.

But specifically, what was a lie from Moore's film?

Okay, I guess I'll reply. ^_^

Oopsies...fahrenheit it is. Looks German. .

Okaaayyy...first, I consider myself independant, and am listed as such. Though I am currently leaning toward the right. Second, I don't wanna have a political debate! Wah! It's just not fun, and this page is entertainment for me. ^__^ *Third*, I don't know if you're addressing multiple people, but I never said that Moore's movie was lies. I haven't seen it, so I wouldn't know. Fourth, I'm very calm, so don't worry. ^_^ Hmmm...I suppose that was in the wrong order.

To your comment about the justification for war. This is how I see it, and it does lean toward the conservative view. But I also think it's logical, which is what comes first for me. Okay. Multiple countries around the world had intelligence that agreed there were WMD is Iraq. If that is the administration's justification for going in than it was perfectly legitimate at the time. You didn't bring up any other issues about going in, and I'm lazy so I'm not gonna address them. At this point you're probably saying "Why haven't we pulled back out, then? We know they don't exist now." Well, this is where I have pretty strong convictions. The U.S. pulls out after stirring up a proverbial hornet's nest all too often. There is nothing to be gained in pulling out at this time. The Iraqi's hate us now, some say. Well, they'll really hate us if we leave their country the way it is now, allowing the insurgency to regroup and claim the country, putting another dictatorial regime in place. So, we've got to help them establish a democracy. In ten, twenty years, they will love our country. (Not that I'm saying we'll need to occupy it nearly that long. We just need to get them headed in the right direction.) Or at least be a working, contributing, civilzed nation of people. I have no doubt about this. Also, urgh, I loath Saddam Hussein. He should've been taken down years ago, in some form or fashion.

Okay, that was longer than I expected! About the spelling, there'll probably be more mistakes- I type very quickly, and don't look back much.

One more thing- I respect your opinions, you're entitled to them, *thank goodness we live in a free country*, feel free to respond, but I really don't want to talk politics anymore on this site. So don't be offended if I don't reply! Doesn't mean I haven't read it.

Interestingly, it would probably take something pretty rude to offend me (not that I want you to try!) since I'm currently in my fourth year at a rather liberal college, and am surrounded by *very* vocal democrats.

QUOTE (EnlightenmentHK @ Jan 21 2005, 22.57)

But specifically, what was a lie from Moore's film?

The whole movie. If you take bits and pieces of the truth to make them sound 'negative' to a mass audience, then that is an indirect LIE. whoooooooooo......calm. off of politics.

Elbereth, intelligence at the time indeed did suggest that there were WMD's. (Though new revelations have shown how unreliable that intelligence was...and how foolish the Adminstration was for buying it), but I was speaking more after the fact. (and a bit before too).

57% of America (most of them Bush supporters) believe that Iraq was either directly involved in the 9-11 attacks or provided substantial support to Al-Queda. Neither one of these beliefs are supported by a shred of evidence. 38% believe that Iraq had WMD's, even after more than a year and a half of searching has found nothing. Again, mostly Bush supporters. That these beliefs persist in the face of all contradicting evidence is my main problem. And it is these people (along with others) who continue to support the war.

And now (for those who have paid attention to various resources) we do know that the majority of our intelligence on WMD's came from exiles and refugees who had a vested interest in seeing Saddam topple. That Bush and company were aiming towards Iraq days after 9-11, even if there was no evidence to connect them. And that even though the CIA repeatedly questioned the reliability of the intelligence...the administration would have it no other way, the unspoken message was 'find us the info we want, whether it exists or not'.

The Bush Administrations relentless push for WMD's in Iraq became a self-fulfilling prohpecy. They accepted anything that hinted at their existance as gospel and discarded anything that contradicted those claims.

To make matters worse, the civilian leadership of the Administration, most of whom had never served a day in their lives, thought they knew better than field generals with decades of experience and decided to fight this war on the cheap. Instead of the overwhelming force necessary to defeat and occupy Iraq, they thought they could police and control a massive country with 100,000 troops. And some of the direct results have been a slowly recovering infrastructure, riots, looting, and chaos in the first days/weeks. And our more recent insurrection. The lack of foresight and planning was appalling. Do you know what the plan was, in some reports, for post-war Iraq? 'To be determined'...thats pretty damned frightening if you're a general on the ground and the leadership doesn't know what the hell they want to do or how they're gonna do it.

Winning the war was easy. We've always been damned good at that. When it comes to winning the peace...well...quite frankly, our track record sucks.

That said, I do agree that since we are committed...we have little choice but to remain. If we pull out too early, we leave a major power vacuum and the various sects will struggle for supremecy, likely leading to open civil war...and worst case scenario, a regime as bad if not worse than Saddam rises up in its place. (and as a bonus, that new regime will likely hate us even more).

As for Moore, the 'truths' he implied with his list of facts did paint a rather biased picture, but they were by no means lie. The explanations he brings up are every bit as possible as any other. Whether they're more probably than other explanations is a matter of debate, but no outright lying in the piece.

QUOTE (EnlightenmentHK @ Jan 23 2005, 03.54)

the unspoken message was 'find us the info we want, whether it exists or not'.

I'm not talking about the administration specifically but the people involved made no secret of their plans before they even got in to power.

There's already too many movies that the Hollywood left have messed up by not being able to keep their freaking politics out of things.
Great. You have a cause. Now you can stop thinking you're just a whiney rich-boy.

SHUT UP AND MAKE THE DAMN MOVIE.

But it rarely happens. There ALWAYS has to be some annoying political remark uttered, and it's often BLATANTLY OBVIOUS.

Hell with that. And this movie, being of such cult status AND a household word, no doubt has some democratic thugs drooling on it, ready to interject their opinions on their enemies.

I can't lie... I've talked all through movies to piss people off when things get too ridiculous. Just look at the Diehard movies... talked all through them... loudly.
Independence Day? Oh hell yes. It was either hearing MY voice or hear Jeff Goldblum talk environmentalism while some old fart is trying to convert the viewers to the Jewish religion.

It's bad enough that Megatron can never be a Walther P38 again, thanks to the paranoid liberals who've made gun ownership out to be some dark, evil act of weakness.

But bring even MORE agendas into a movie about the robots from my childhood? I'll slam this movie to kingdom come and make sure I was responsible for MANY people merely downloading it, and not paying a cent to have their political intelligence be further crapped on by Hollywood.

Here's a list of things that will make me utterly RUIN the movie for everyone else in the theater:

Political commentaries or remarks regarding:
--the homeless
--Bush administration
--anti-gun BS
--global warming BS
--abortion
--vegetarianism
--animal rights
--pollution
--nukes

If any of these are brought up, even in some crappy one-liner... the whole thing automatically gets an F.

ETA: Oh yeah, and tracism... I hope that one was obvious.

QUOTE (JINZONINGEN 73 @ Jan 23 2005, 13.32)

Oh yeah, and tracism... I hope that one was obvious.

I promise you that a LARGE section of the film will deal with preventing hatred of artists who trace their work.

Tracism needs to be fought at all times you sock biter!

DOWN WITH TRACISM!!!

QUOTE (EnlightenmentHK @ Jan 20 2005, 21.44)

When Megatron does incinerate the White House, could you have a bewildered G-dub look alike standing on the balcony looking up and shitting his pants?

*EHK* - Dude get off your conservatives bashing box. I'm one and I am nothing like you describe at all. You have your views and I have mine. I haven't boycotted anything. I'm a Christian as well and do you see me bashing liberals on this site? If everyone hates Bush like you seem to think, then why did he get re-elected?

You sound like one of those guys who plays a game and then when you're not winning you accuse others of cheating. If you want to state your opinion, fine, but don't speak for everyone else.

Generalizations of what everyone believes and thinks is what ticks people off. I know a lot of Democrats that voted for Bush based on his morals, etc... So when people cross party lines it is for a reason. Is any President perfect? No, and there never will be one. I'm not a Democrat, yet I voted for Clinton, and he let a lot of people down, and Kerry was even worse than Clinton. If the Democrats had put a REAL challenger up there they may have won. If you want to see G-Dub in the movie scene you described fine, but again, don't assume everyone else is going to follow suit with you and applaud.

Don, I don't agree with everything anyone says on this board...including you, but I'll never suggest to you that everyone believes the way I do either. Make this movie into the awesome thing it will be, entertainment! Its got a good story line and The *Transformers* always had a good vs. evil positive moral spin to it.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have a hard time seeing any sane conservatives or Christians for that matter backing away from this. Rock on Don!

QUOTE (EnlightenmentHK @ Jan 20 2005, 21.44)

When Megatron does incinerate the White House, could you have a bewildered G-dub look alike standing on the balcony looking up and shitting his pants?

Dear uninformed poster,

Liberal democrats are the reason Megatron can't be a gun anymore, not conservatives.
Liberal democrats are the people with enough political sway to make it so companies are afraid to have Jazz be their Porsche and Bumblebee be their Volkswagon.

You need to be worrying about mush-headed soccer moms, not religion freaks. Not that religion freaks are anything worthy of defending either, but...

hey jasncondit man, i'm with you.
i'm a Christian, and for some people that makes me a conservative. whatever!!!

Jesus, try to have a little fun with politics and everyone gets their panties in a bunch. Relax, take a deep breath, calm down.

Now Jasn, obviously what I stated in the first post was a gross generalization not really to be taken all that seriously. While I'm not exactly the funniest guy in the world, I would have hoped that at least the attempt at humor would have been noticable. I'm obviously not advocating any real politics in the film and think it would be as distracting and pointless as anyone else here. But that doesn't mean I can't have a little fun joking about it in a post.

QUOTE (JINZONINGEN 73 @ Jan 23 2005, 23.28)

Liberal democrats are the reason Megatron can't be a gun anymore, not conservatives.

Failing to see how thats relevant to anything, even if it is true. But to argue the point, I would have thought it was the explosion of youth violence in the media, columbine, school shootings, 5 year olds bringing daddy's handgun for show and tell, and other such overly reported incidents in the last several years that made the public a bit reluctant to let little kids play with realistic looking toy guns. But hey, if those spineless, wussy liberals are an easier answer, by all means stick to it. It also doesn't help that megatron was specifically listed for a time on the FAA website in the list of things that cannot be taken on planes. Hell, if the FAA thought it was a security risk, its almost understandable why Hasbro doesn't want to touch it.

QUOTE (JINZONINGEN 73 @ Jan 23 2005, 23.28)

Liberal democrats are the people with enough political sway to make it so companies are afraid to have Jazz be their Porsche and Bumblebee be their Volkswagon.

Companies want to avoid associating their products with war and violence? And liberals are to blame? German companies still haven't recovered from NAZI war guilt, and liberals are to blame? Curious what else they're responsible for.

And the soccer mom's lately, more often than not, are conservative. But in most cases, over-protective mother knows no political boundaries.

QUOTE (bassbot @ Jan 24 2005, 00.09)

i'm a Christian, and for some people that makes me a conservative. whatever!!!

And being a Christian doesn't make you a conservative. Wanting to impose your religiously based values upon others, does.

Dear god people, is it that clear cut for you? You think we hate all of you because you believe in god? Thats about the most ridiculous thing I've heard. Contrary to popular belief, we do not hate religion or religious people. Many of us are religious ourselves. We're not gonna burn your bibles or ban the ten commandments. We'd appreciate it if the more extreme ones would quit pushing creationism and other such unscientific drivel into our science classrooms, if they would quit saying that AIDS is god's cure for homosexuality, quit insisting on mis-information to teens in sex ed classes (which results not in lower pre-marital sex rates, but higher teen pregnancy and the proliferation of STD's), quit the moral crusade against all things fun (porn, violent video games, prostitution, gambling, pre-marital sex, recreational sex, and drugs), but otherwise...we have no beef.

Come on people, talking about politics doesn't have to be an all out slug fest. It isn't gonna burn you. Its harmless. Just like talking about cartoons or sports. No need to get all bent out of shape over it.

And for anyone who cares, I consider myself a moderate libertarian. (contradiction in terms, I know)

I think the title of this thread says it all. Keep political shit out of the movie. Any political shit. Not just "political shit I happen to disagree with" (*EnlightenmentHK* I'm looking at you).

You want Bush reference go and see a Michael Moore movie.

Or a Jenna Jameson movie.