Just finished it last night...or if you like, this morning...as I read the last 300 pages (of an only 400+ page novel) straight through. I'll offer more when I've collected my thoughts, but AWESOME fucking ending. Left me begging for more.

Dunyan Sinners:

They're all blond haired, blue eyed Aryan, 'Master Race' types who exterminate the weaker amongst themselves. They are all conscienceless sociopaths who torture and murder their own and all those around them if it serves their purposes. For them, the ends justify ANY means, they feel no emotions or empathy, but readily manipulate those who do feel them to serve their purposes. They're all potential race exterminating NAZI's who use reason as their justification rather than blind conviction...which makes their acts even worse in my mind. A men who use emotion or superstition to dictate their actions can arguably be said not to be in total control of who they is or what they does...the Dunyan have no such excuse. Their crimes are theirs and theirs alone. Full, unmitigated accountability. Therefore, I think they're damned, according to the rules of this world, all of them.

Conphas:

Got to say, I was disappointed. With Cnair insane and Akka intermittently gaining and losing his balls, he was the only true rival to Kellhaus. And fucking A...I was cheering for him. While I find Kellhus to be an interesting character, I also completely and utterly loath him. I was cheering for Akka to smack him down a dozen times. One of my favorite parts of the books is when most of his column decides to stay with him...that was as big a FUCK YOU to Kellhus as anything else in the series.

The Nansur Empire were also amongst the most civilized invading hordes in the series. I remember multiple times when they were the disciplined, civil types while the rest of the Inrithi went raping and pillaging at will. One city even bargained to open their gates only if the Empire became their occupiers. Disappointed that his end came rather anti-climactically. Though it may have killed some potential sequels, I would have been completely satisfied to have him run down and destroy the prophets army...and the prophet....with his men.

Akka:

Definately the true protagonist of the series and the one we can all relate too. All around a great character. His lapses between strength and weakness were frustrating though, since I yearned to see him a baddass, gnostic flinging mother-fucker throughout. I like his gradual shift into a modern day Seswatha and VERY interested in what happens between him and Kellhus in the future.

I disagree on the 'tantrum' remarks about his ending. He was simply beyond caring. The only thing he gave a damn about at that point was Esemet. And when she forsook him; what was an out of touch (to him anyway) order, manipulated slaves, and a betraying, lying puppet-master to him anyway? He had nothing there. He was on the outside. To pretend otherwise would be just that. And Kellhus would no doubt see through it and at some point, would have to take him out. I believe Akka knew that and perhaps figured he'd take his moment of satisfaction and leave.

I also thought it was incredibly satisfying. Someone has to stand up to that shit Kellhus. And I honestly thought at that point, he was beyond rage, beyond love, beyond hate...and could have leveled that place had anyone attempted to stop him. Sitting beside Kellhus offered him only a lifetime of pleasing deception. And had he given in, it'd only be too tempting to succumb to it and forget the truth.

The Whining:

I thought this too got a bit excessive. Throughout the second half of tWP and first half of TTT. Another described it well, they'd whine incessently, come to a revelation and grow some balls/backbone...lose it, whine again incessantly and so on and so forth. At certain points it did detract from the novel. When it came to Akka and Esmi, I was just waiting for him to snap (as he nearly did a few times) and call her a worthless whore, Kellhus a betraying bastard, and just lay into them instead of always being brought back by Kellhus's manipulations. Much like my feelings on the elves in LotR, I wanted a main character to grab their scrawny necks, smack them a round, and let them know just how big a bastards they are. LotR didn't have that payoff. In the absolute end...this book did.

I like that.

The Narrative:

Perhaps essential to maintain the pace....and it was nice not having 1,000,000 characters to follow, but too often I think 3rd person narratives substituted for first person impressions. While they were still powerful and as a result of this choice, very fast pace...I don't think 3rd person can ever be quite as compelling as first hand accounts. It started about the middle of tWP with the desert scene and continued throughout. Innumerable names tossed left and right, deaths and struggles of unprounouncable figures that we never really came to know. We were able to get a connection with a few of them, but not many. Alot of them I'd be curious to know more about.

That said, giving them PoV's and full fledged characters no doubt would have slowed the pace...and likely made it impossible to do this in 3 books. And it did make the pacing and action incredibly intense with shit happening left and right. So somewhat ambivilant on the choice, don't think it necessarily wrong, but curious what the other way could have brought.

The End:

Pulse pounding and intense. Seriously...I forced myself to stay up til 7am finishing this damned thing. The battle for Shimeh, the somewhat anti-climactic meeting with Daddy, Achamians battle, the sorcerer duels, all KICK ASS. I'll agree that it felt rushed, hell the pacing was furious and left me tired. But he definately trimmed all the excess fat from his last few hundred pages...and it was lean, mean, and brutal. And given my recent complaints about aFFC, I'd be a tad bit hypocritical to bash this too much.

And let me restate again...I fucking loved the absolute end. Tantrum or not, nothing was more satisfying than watching the intermittently weak willed, but highly sympathetic Akka lay the verbal smackdown on the all-powerful, and may he be tortured and killed, Kellhus. Besides, with every other character a sycophantic slave throughout so much of the book, it was nice for one character to have the audacity to tell him to go to hell.

Conclusion:

He's set up an amazing and compelling world that gets me incredibly interested in what he'll do with it. Nilmashi (sp), zuem, Attritau, the barren north, the rest of the Dunyan, Non-men, No-god, Inchorai...I EAGERLY want to know what he's gonna do with these guys.

Which is why this series pisses me off. Cause yet again...I have to fucking wait to find out!!

The perfect ending to the Aspect Emperor trilogy (assuming it'll be such): A titanic battle between Achamian and Kellhus (don't care how or why, just make it happen), mountains uprooted, cities destroyed, landscapes leveled. Magic, fire, brimstone cascading across the horizon. Horrified onlookers catching the tiny figures dueling upon a mountaintop from leagues away. Finally the last of Kellhus's wards are shattered. Achamian lifts him up by his scrawny neck and declares in an amplified voice heard for miles around:

QUOTE

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyrannies of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness. For he is truly his brothers' keeper and finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the lord when I lay my vengeance upon you."

than rips his head off from his dangling body and skull-fucks him.

Satisfying endings to long series

QUOTE (ser jon stark @ Jul 24 2007, 17.52)

i know it doesn't really count since it is only 3 books and the whole story isn't finished yet but the Prince of Nothing trilogy was awesome the ending was one of my favorite parts. I can't wait for the next trilogy to this story

Personally, I hated the ending. (but in a very good way.) A more fitting ending would have been Acha firing a surge 'super-magic' that pierce Kellhus against the wall Stigmata style. Crushing Kelhus's crown underfoot as he approached, ripping the SoB limb from limb before slicing his stomach open to give that arrogant fuck a first hand look at his entrails. Than topping it all off by single-handedly ripping his head off and shitting down his throat. Imagine all that in the final 'throne' scene. Perfect.

I hope to god that Acha lays the mother-fucking SMACKDOWN on Kellhus in the next series of books. I have never been inspired to such hatred for a character in any book. Guess that speaks well for the effectiveness of the trilogy.

After the first book, it really is a damned lean series. Massive battles and great events taking places in several pages of third person. Interesting characters that never actually had any dialogue (think the scarfaced guy in Braveheart, the type that can be 'cool' without any actual development or much focus). Managing a large scope of breadth and depth without weighing us down with too many trivialities. That can be good and bad. But for what its worth, the final book managed to be every bit as epic as most 'big' stories out there while coming in at a very manageable and swift 400 pages. (With a rather interesting 100+ page compendium at the end. Which isn't essential to understanding the story or the world, but info dumps alot of finer details that are interesting, but not required for the immediate story)

I was a fan and got used to the names rather quickly. (Of course I'm a reader that never bothers to sound names out. While reading any fantasy work, unless its a familiar contemporary name, they quickly become symbols signifying a character for me rather than anything I might have to spell. So long as they're distinguishable from other characters, which they largely are here, I'm fine)

My only major complaint was that some characters who I desperately wanted to die...painfully...sometimes didn't.

QUOTE (Spectralist @ Sep 7 2007, 21.17)

Ridiculous though it was, it still could have been interesting. If he had competition.

Presumably he will in the next books. With the other Dunyan and bigger villains coming to the fore. I don't mind Bakker's explanation for Kelhuss's amazing skill. I tend to prefer non-magical explanations whenever possible. And its not too much of a stretch for me to buy that thousands of years of 'master race' breeding and a lifetime of training could produce someone that adept. Maybe Bakker takes it too far and makes his 'loyalty' conquests too easy, but its tempered by Kelhuss being an absolute prick. Just the audacity of taking a figure who is very clearly a Jesus stand in (or his second coming) and turning him into a manipulative sociopath without an ounce of empathy for anyone, who exploits their superstitions and prophecies to reinforce those 'messiah' notions...I find to be rather interesting.

Would I like more resistance? Absolutely. I don't know how many times during Akka/Kelhus, Kel/Esmi, or Kel/Cenuir chapters that I'm continually shouting 'KILL HIM!! JUST KILL HIM!!' (not literally, but you get the picture) page after page as they fall victim to his manipulations...even when they sometimes know better. I can honestly say that I have never hated a character in literature as much as I hate Kelhuss. And for that, I'm more than willing to forgive any excesses in 'willing suspension' that Bakker might need from us.

As far as I'm concerned, Kelhuss has been the true villain of the series from at least the second book. Akka clearly the most sympathetic character and protagonist. And while I'm generally tolerant of non-traditional, non-happy endings in film and books...this is one where I DEMAND some good, ole fashioned poetic justice. Kelhuss better fucking have his comeuppance in future books. I want him destroyed. Tortured, humiliated, exposed, powerless and begging for mercy. I was cheering for the young emperor (the one out leading the armies of the Byzantine stand-in faction) to kick Kelhuss's ass. And that guy is VERY clearly drawn as a villain. I want him to die. I would be perfectly happy if he didn't make it through the first 5 pages of the next book.

QUOTE (Tom the Merciful @ Sep 8 2007, 22.28)

So, I came up with a term "benevolent dictator". That would be something like Mickey Mouse - a fictional character.

Actually, benevolent dictator is a fairly established concept in alot of historical/sociological discussions. And I'm sure there are a number of major figures who some historians might attach that label to. (and of course some historians would say the exact opposite about the same figure) And you can make a fair argument that the benevolent, competent (what good is a good guy if he's a moron?) dictator is the best form of government out there. At least in the short term. One guy to take full responsibility for all the failures and successes. Not near as much of that 'passing the buck' bullshit when it comes to accountability. Able to react swiftly and resolutely when confronted by crisis. Skipping all the inefficiencies inherent in Democracy. Of course even the most ardent micromanager doesn't actually run everything. He'd need an established, expansive bureaucracy just like any democratic form of government.

But of course the biggest flaw is 'who comes next'. This B-Dic may be an absolute genius, but what if his son is a cruel half-wit? You're kind of fucked. And even if you get a line of good rulers, they are one guy. And its easy for some regions of the territory that he's not familiar with to be neglected or overlooked. At least most democratic forms of government gives you a local representative accountable to you. Than there's the issue of cronyism. If he's 'THE guy' you can guarantee that government will be filled with his buddies, competent or not. And a people who have no personal say or stake in governance often act like it. Apathetic sheep. And of course that whole 'absolute power/corruption' stuff.

On Kelhuss. There are tortures not fathomed in the deepest darkest pits of film, literature, or reality that I wish HEAVILY upon that fucker. He could literally turn out to be jesus...heal the sick, feed the poor, love all and be loved by all. Bring a thousand years of peace, love and happiness...and I'd still want him brutalize like no other man has. I absolutely despise that character.

Quick question. Why does Kellhus believe that the Dunyan will side with the Consult (and presumably try to destroy all or most life) once they learn the 'truth' about the outside? I thought I had it pegged down, but reading some posts on Bakker's board leave me less certain. (call that completely uncertain).

I had originally thought that once they accept the outside as real, they'd realize that they're destined for damnation (probably because they're amoral sociopaths) and so seek to close off Earwa from the outside much as the Consult are trying to do. But now I really have no idea. Any help?