QUOTE (Weekapaug @ Apr 14 2009, 17.31)

Generally I think I'd lean towards the Cubs instead of the White Sox because White Sox fans root for AJ Pierzynski, whom I will forever hate (especially for his bush league play en-route to the WS)...however I'll let Obama sway me back towards the White Sox. I can always root for guys like Dye, Konerko, Buerhle, etc. before Soriano, Zambrano, et al.

Bush league? Playing smart and actually noticing the umpire's (non) call? Bah. As for the rest, definitely agree. This crew almost has as much a place in my heart as the group I grew up with. Ozzie, Ventura, Baines, Lance Johnson, Fisk, etc. Just a bunch of likable, (mostly) quality players. Plus, we've got the two coolest politicians on the planet as fans. (Obama of course and Mayor Daley.)

QUOTE (Jaxom 1974 @ Apr 14 2009, 18.44)

And don't get all high and mighty. I think pretty much every Cubs fan here came out and congratulated the White Sox on a hell of a Wolrd Seires when they won it.

When I'm 142 (Universal health care and future modern medicine), lying on my death bed, I too will congratulate Cubs fans when they finally win theirs.

QUOTE (Jaxom 1974 @ Apr 15 2009, 09.21)

This is the way power ranking commentary should go all year... CBS Sports not just after week one...

Heh...all of these are pretty good.

Maybe Dewayne Wise's separated shoulder has blessing-in-disguise potential. After all, it gives Brian Anderson his 24th chance to prove that he can hit like a big boy. ... The back-to-back homers hit by Paul Konerko and Jermaine Dye on Monday represented each player's 300th career round-tripper. Eerie! ... If the pitchers don't cut back on the number of walks they issue, Ozzie Guillen is totally gonna curse a lot in Spanish.

QUOTE

Every franchise is going to have its fair share of classy "guys". This is not an accomplishment. Kenny and Ozzie are not classy guys. Nor are they good at what they do.

Vs. a team personified by cheats, egos, and headcases past and present? With fans that charge the field and beat up base coaches? (Yes, that father and son pair were Cub fans) Buehrle, Dye, Konerko, and Guillen as the face of the team sure as fuck beat the hell out of what the Cubs got. Boom and bust Soriano? Nutjob, I'll never be the ace they think I am Zambrano? 3+ years of endless hopes and dreams placed in the lost causes of Wood and Prior? (anyone miss the 24/7 talk radio Prior injury watch? Didn't think so) Derrek 'Where oh where did my power go?' Lee? Top 5 steroid poster child and total douche Sosa? Cubs fans defended that fucker until the last possible moment before he left, so he's still on you.

Who could forget all the excitement over that first week of Fuck You Do Me's Major League career? Had all the Cubs fans giddy til he was exposed as a bust. And good job on picking up YET ANOTHER class act in Milton Bradley. Heard he charged the press box due to mean comments in his prior job, should fit right in. Classy, hard playing guys? Hardly.

QUOTE (Jaxom 1974 @ Apr 15 2009, 21.58)

And if you think Derrek Lee isn't a classy guy, a classy player, then you're nothing more than the dumbfuck Sox fan everyone thinks you are.

Classy? Maybe. Still, you've got to wonder about a guy whose power production drop by more than HALF the minute after he signs the big money contract. Guy hasn't sniffed 30 home runs since signing and probably won't again.

QUOTE (Jaxom 1974 @ Apr 15 2009, 21.58)

I dont give a shit if anybody on the Cubs is 'classy' or not. Its retarded to care.

I'll take headcase Zambrano's last 6 years at average 91-51 ave: 210 IP, 3.39 era, 132 ERA+, 1075 Ks, 1.265 whip. (460 Abs .253/.260/.409 16HR, 47 RBI), over Buehrle's last 6 years at 83-66 ave: 220 Ip, 3.91 era, 119 ERA+, 786 Ks, 1.302 whip, regardless of EHKs notions of class.

They're both workhorses, they both put in good work. One's a good, likable guy and a clubhouse leader while the other is just a primadonna, headcase prick. No Buerhle isn't an ace, I don't think even the most delusional Sox fan would call him one. Though Cubs fans continually try to call Zambrano one even during his more disastrous stretches. Zambrano never quite lives up to expectations, while Buerhle continually exceeds them considering he doesn't have the greatest stuff in the world. All things considered, I'd rather have Buerhle on my team then Zambrano. Not quite as good. Doesn't have the overpowering stuff. But he's good, reliable, will preserve the hell out of your bullpen, a positive clubhouse influence with absolutely no threat of becoming a clubhouse cancer. Plus he even sells a few tickets. I know I seek out Buerhle starts when I see a game and many other Sox fans do too.

He's probably the most popular Sox player right now (Paulie previously, but he's been waning a bit) and I'm damned glad to have him.

Edit: Also consider that you're comparing American league pitching stats to National league ones. Hitter friendly parks for both cancels that out, but you can't deny that hitting in the AL is much stronger than the NL. Gets even worse when you consider he doesn't have to pitch against the best hitting Club in the NL.

QUOTE (Caliban @ Apr 16 2009, 01.30)

Zambrano does not have half the attitude problem that this thread is giving him credit for. He makes a quirky comment to the media every couple of weeks, and he is very outwardly intense on the diamond. Aside from getting into a fight with Barrett a few years back (got squashed immediately) and taking off his belt in an attempt to strangle a Padre in 2007 I can think of nothing. He is extremely intense, and does not really hide it. I see no problem with his atittude, and he is the farthest thing from a clubhouse cancer. He wants to win, he plays hard, he does basically everything right. The coaches like him and the clubhouse likes him.

Obviously the national media doesnt do a good job of capturing Big Z, becuase if you think Z's personality takes away from his value to the team, even a little, you are simply wrong.

Homer.

QUOTE (Caliban @ Apr 17 2009, 19.28)

How about Soriano. He is for sure a difference maker. I didnt see the game, but I heard he looked awful for 4 at bats and then tagged on in the 8th. Big win. I hope LaRussa chokes on it. Fucking piece of shit. That whole city is a piece of shit. Is there any reason Tony LaRussa is allowed to be part of society? I fucking hate that guy. Hes got no business not being in a choke hold. i wanna pour a drink on his wife's head. I think hes just the worst guy imaginable. Just the worst. He doesnt know how to drink responsibly. Hes got no clue how to do it. He passed out at a red. What an ass that clown is.How bout soem culpability for the man who presided over the biggest influx of steriods in the games' history, your 1987 Oakland Athletics. LaRussa can blow me and I hope he chokes on it.

Jesus...and you say Sox fans are bitter and petty. Keep it up. Shit like this will quickly make me a St. Louis fan just to fuck with you.

QUOTE (Caliban @ Apr 19 2009, 21.12)

Was thinking the same thing during today's White Sox Rays game. A hporribly run franchise with fans versus a wonderfully run franchise with zero fans. Sunday afternoon and about 10k in attendance. Its pathetic. I wonder what it would be like to root for a team with really solid payroll management, and masterful talent evaluation and payroll management. I guess nobody knows.

Where is this hporribly run franchise you speak of? Could it be the one that's won a World Series in the last 100 years?

QUOTE (Caliban @ Apr 20 2009, 09.19)

So you have the second worse 100 year stretch in baseball. Winning a world series within the span of the Cubs drought is far from impressive and at this point becoming basically a statistical certainty.

You'd think it would be. Apparently statistical certainty doesn't work out so well for some teams.

QUOTE (Caliban @ Apr 20 2009, 09.19)

I was more refering to Kenny Williams and Ozzie Guillen both of whom I consider awful at what they do, and Jerry Reinsdorf who i consider somewhat of a clown and whose franchises' leadership have a tendency to look like the keystone cops. I know those three won a WS together, and it was despite them and totally attributable to some pitchers getting red hot at exactly the right time. Colangelo and Bob Brenly won a WS recently too. Doesnt make them suck any less.

Awful? Within a season of arriving, Guillen and Williams remade half the team. Dealt Carlos Lee for Podsednik in a deal that half the baseball world thought was nuts, but paid off handsomely as Pods became a terror on the bases, frustrated opposing pictures, provided DESPERATELY needed speed, and was the main offensive spark for the first half of the season. Picked up Hermanson, El Duque, Bobby Jenks, and big money Yankees bust Contreras ('04), all of whom made CRUCIAL contributions to the championship season. The controversial AJ Pierzinski who handled the pitching staff well behind the plate and became a positive clubhouse influence. Little known (in the US, no bidding frenzy for this guy unlike some other Japanese players) Tadahito Iguchi who performed well in every role asked of him, completely selfless and team orientated, contributed in just about every big and little way possible, more then earning Ozzie's designation of team MVP. And last but certainly not least, World Series MVP, a great power bat and arm in right field, veteran clubhouse presence, Jermaine Dye.

Every move the Sox made that season paid off HUGE. (for that year anyway) The White Sox dominated the majors from almost start to finish on the back of amazing pitching, strong defense, and timely hitting. They did this while picked by most 'experts' to finish 4th in the division. You trying to tell me this was all dumb luck for a couple of 'awful' 'keystone cops' bumbling their way through trades, free agency, and in-season management? Hardly.

QUOTE (Caliban @ Apr 20 2009, 09.19)

I know the Cubs havent won a WS for 100 years. Whatever. I have only followed the team for 15 years, and really closely for 10. In those ten years we have 4 playoff appearences and have won 3/6 divisions. So im not too shaken by the 100 year drought, my tenure has a fan has been reasonably sucessful (but with soem really, really bad teams mixed in.)

We're doing the last 10 years then? White Sox have won the central 3 times in the last 10 years. One of those times we won the World Series. I'd say my 10 years have been reasonably successful as well.

QUOTE (Myshkin @ Apr 20 2009, 19.57)

Since 2000 the AL has won the World Series 5 times, and the NL has won the World Series 4 times. But of course the NL totally sucks and only got lucky 4 out of 9 times.

This AAAA bullshit is not bourne out by the facts. But then some peaple don't want to be bothered by facts.

QUOTE (Lord O' Bones @ Apr 20 2009, 20.00)

HAR HAR HAR!!! Did you make that up yourself? Of course you didn't.

So the NL has won 8 titles compared to the AL's 12 over the last 20 years. Four of them bought and paid for by the Yankees. You're so right, I don't even know why the NL bothers to take the field.

I won't assert shit about the last 10-20 years, but since 2006 the AL has been whooping the shit out of the NL in interleague play. We can give all the scheduling inequity excuses we like, but that can't explain losing more then 60% of the games.

154-98--2006
137-115--2007
149-103--2008

440-316-- We're talking a .582 winning percentage, with two seasons close to 2/3's range. That's pretty damned decisive, at least for the recent past.

QUOTE (Jaxom 1974 @ Apr 21 2009, 07.03)

I know! Isn't it great we've moved on to bigger and better things? (SOX STILL SUCK!!! )

Your desperate baiting is cute...and sad.

QUOTE (Jaxom 1974 @ Apr 21 2009, 07.03)

Yet since 2006, the NL has won 2 of the last 3 World Series...but whatever...

2 teams vs. every team...but whatever...

QUOTE (Jaxom 1974 @ Apr 21 2009, 07.46)

Why would I actually bait you, EHK? We'll argue about the Cubs/Sox regardless. Baiting isn't needed. The fact that you think that was baiting is what's really sad since you obviously don't come into the baseball threads enough to know how most of us really are in here. Now I'm depressed that your blind hatred has prevented you from simply being able to have fun. Guess we can't count on you in the future for rational baseball talk.

Methinks you're a little wired today. Have a cookie while I try that 'rational baseball talk' thing.

(CUBS SUCK A BIG, FAT DONKEY DICK!!!!!!!!!!!)

How's that?

QUOTE (Jaxom 1974 @ Apr 21 2009, 07.46)

Look, you pointed out that the AL has dominated since 2006 during interleague play. Maybe they did, but when the dust cleared after the WS for the same time frame, it was the NL that had won 2 of the 3. Nice to dominate during interleague during the regular season except when it doesn't translate into the ring at the end of the post season.

When the dust cleared, 2 total teams out of 30 played a 7 game series each year. Trying to extrapolate comparative league quality from that is silly. It literally tells you next to nothing. Having the best team in baseball (for sake of argument) doesn't necessarily say a thing about the other 13/15 teams in their respective Leagues. However when every team in baseball plays 15-18 games against the other league each year, there are some reasonable inferences that can be drawn from that, ESPECIALLY when the margin of victory is so large.

Like it or not, for the last couple years the NL have been getting their asses kicked. On its face that suggests an overall, league wide deficiency compared to the AL as a whole.

QUOTE (Jaxom 1974 @ Apr 21 2009, 09.21)

Time to let this one drop. You obviously are missing the point from your high horse.

And you're clearly mistaking playful for something else entirely. But I guess since I'm not a regular member of the baseball thread social club, I've got to be the one fucking things up.

QUOTE (Jaxom 1974 @ Apr 21 2009, 09.21)

Fair enough. Guess we can eliminate the playoffs and World Series from the schedule then. Be easier to get into football in October then.

We use those to determine the best team in baseball. In no way, shape or form are they intended or set up to determine the better league in baseball. Interleague play isn't designed for that either, but its a HELL OF ALOT more useful and effective indicator of comparative league quality than how the 2 (ostensibly) best teams fared against eachother in a 7 game series.

QUOTE (Jaxom 1974 @ Apr 21 2009, 09.21)

I don't know if you're being obtuse or you simply can't stand to not be able to argue. No one disputes the fact that the NL has had it's hat handed to it in the last three years (your smaple size here, though I'm sure it probably goes back further, but that isn't the selected years in the example) during interleague play. It doesn't change the fact that for those three years, in which the NL couldn't beat the AL to save it's life in the regular season, when it counted at the end when the WS was played the NL won 2 of 3, which is ultimately why these teams are playing the game (or so we're told). In fact, the idea that the Cardinals beat the Tigers in 2006 is that much more amazing in that the Cardinals were far from the best team in the NL that season while the Tigers were rather good as I recall.

And your unchanged fact is next to irrelevant. The question is 'which league is better?' Not which league's Pennant winner is better. The American League didn't lose those world series games, one individual team from the American league did. Why is this so fucking hard to grasp? Yes, the World Series is why these teams are playing the game. But that is not an answer to the question that we're attempting to answer. There are baby seals and Panda bears who have gotten this. The hairy primates have gotten it and long since moved on. Again, what the hell is taking you so long?

QUOTE (Jaxom 1974 @ Apr 21 2009, 09.21)

Now, blow the argument up to the last 10 years? I can't and won't argue that because the microcosm of the previous three seasons that was brought up by you is just that, a microcosm. Over the last 10 seasons, the NL has been playing catch up to the AL and we all know it. For the past three seasons though, when it came down to the WS, the NL looked up at the big bad AL who dominated during the regular and gave it back on the chin.

Blow the argument out as far as you like, I'm not talking about the last 10 years. I'm talking about the last few years as an indicator of what the reality is right now. And unless we see a drastic shift in interleague play results in a few weeks, the current status quo is AL >>> NL.

QUOTE (Triskele @ Apr 24 2009, 03.24)

Did he have a bandana? I remember more like a Rip Van Winkle cap and holding a lantern, possibly even with some sort of face paint on. It doesn't matter. That was one of ESPN's best ever.

I really like the "Marquis de Sod" where they put field turf in place of carpet after Kenny Mayne tore his ACL walking down the hallway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhYxLd8O9lA
Can't seem to find the Sod one, but the Y2k bit is classic.

Other favorites:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9TfsgBW9O4&feature=PlayList&p=333E21D1059E16AE&index=10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_BYO_6nvdI&feature=PlayList&p=333E21D1059E16AE&index=30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHloJGO0NoY&feature=PlayList&p=333E21D1059E16AE&index=48
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APOtRvO6moA&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dNClZ6C90E

QUOTE (Caliban @ Apr 24 2009, 09.01)

Bob Ley is awesome in the SCCs.

I cant find one of my favorites. The one when the SC personalities play basketball with 10 year old kids.

Don't say I never did anything for ya.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0rSbR80GQk

Greinke's 0.00 ERA gets put to the test today in his 4th start. One of the few times I wish I had the MLB pass, should be interesting.

And Zack Greinke is just a little bit insane yet again. If this shit keeps up, my sportswriter friend (who predicted a Greinke Cy Young pre-season) is gonna be looking pretty damned prophetic. I mean we all knew Greinke was good, but this good? And with the Royals no less?

W/L--4-0
IP----29
ERA--0.00
BB---6
SO---36
WHIP-0.86
BBA--.186

So, when do you think this guy gives up his first earned run? Next start? Also much love for John Danks with an ERA under 1 and WHIP/BBA numbers better then Greinke's.

The Greinke demolition of opposing hitters continues...this time against my White Sox. That fucker is just sick...a sick son of a bitch in my damned division. I know the White Sox will never pay-for/trade-for a player like that, some national league team want to snatch that fucker? 6 wins. 3 shutouts. .40 ERA. Just nuts. Shutout tonight, 10k's, no walks. GET THIS ASSHOLE OUT OF MY DIVISION.

Speaking of assholes...what happens when an out of shape, 300 pound, $90 million dollar 'Ace' tries to beat out a bunt?

QUOTE (Mexal @ May 5 2009, 03.56)

I think he just signed an extension. He's not going anywhere at the moment.

You have to admit though, it's really awesome to watch his talent finally come forward. He's always had it but his mental state was so out of whack he just couldn't put it together. It finally looks like he has and it's beautiful to watch (of course, being in London, I can't watch shit, but I can pretend).

It is beautiful to watch. But not when he's doing it to your team and not when the normally hapless Royals are leading the division in large part due to him.

I spent about the first half of the White Sox World Series season studying abroad. You can actually get the MLB games streamed at MLB.com for a fee. Buddy of mine, also a Sox fan, did it for the trip and we spent more then a few nights (late ass nights with the time difference) drinking in computer labs watching the games. If you've got some high speed internet access, might be worth the investment.

QUOTE (Myshkin @ May 7 2009, 12.41)

Something that wouldn't involve paperwork that could prove or disprove the story. If he wanted to lie about how the substance got into his system why would he say he had a medical reason and a prescription, rather than saying that it was in something he got over the counter at GNC? If he said it was something he got over the counter at GNC there would be no record to disprove him. As it is now he has to disclose whatever medical condition he has, produce a doctor and paperwork to prove he actually has said condition, and produce the prescription for the medicine.

The players are all well informed at this point NOT to take anything without running it by team doctors or league officials. They have a damned hotline they can call for that information if they're not sure. They know that even seemingly harmless drugs and supplements may contain banned substances and it is incumbent upon them to find out one way or another. That is one of their responsibilities as a player in the steroids era and I have no doubt that its been made abundantly clear to everyone.

Further, how is the doctor excuse to be disproven? You can't get another persons medical records without a court order. The doctor has confidentiality obligations. Its the ironclad, perfect excuse unless the doctor himself gets pissy and wants to protect his reputation. Further, doctors are bigger whores than lawyers half the time. It'd be easy as hell for a wealthy athlete to find doctor to prescribe what he needed.

If this was genuinely unintended (which further news stories seem to indicate otherwise), the responsibility was ENTIRELY on manner to find out one way or another.