QUOTE (Brude @ Jan 23 2008, 13.06)

Remember when that fake Russian WWF wrestler used to get up and sing the "Soviet Anthem?"

I used to get tingles listening to the Soviet national anthem even when I was a young Reaganite. It is awesome.

That said, I do fondly remember Nikolai Volkoff and Boris Zhukov (The Bolsheviks tag team), and cheered whenever they'd get smacked down by a red blooded American wrestler. (I was such an easy mark in those days) I remember when Nikolai learn the error of his ways and became an American. I watched with great pride as he tried to sing the American national anthem for the first time. Truly between this, Rocky 4, and Red Dawn our victory over the Soviets was inevitable.

QUOTE (Brude @ Jan 23 2008, 02.23)

For a while Volkoff was tag-teaming with The Iron Sheik which was a pretty hilarious pairing of American "enemies." Didn't the Sheik also sing his anthem, or some shtick?

Heh...I remember the Sheik, but he was prominent during my earliest days of WWF fandom. (I was maybe 4 or 5) Just did a bit of googling, yeah those two teamed up in about '84. Just as I was getting into wrestling. (I'd say Wrestlemania 4 was the height of my obsessed fandom, a few years later) And after he turned into an America loving capitalist, he feuded with Sgt. Slaugher who had betrayed America and supported Saddam Hussein's Iraq. (Wrestling was some seriously sinister propaganda back in the day if you consider the target audience.)

Heh...this is kick ass. (if a bit repetitive) Shoot interview by the Iron Sheik a year or two ago where he drunkenly shares his thoughts about his fellow wrestlers.

No Good MFers!!

Some gems. "Brian Blair, you are punk motherfuckin piece of shit.....The reason you have job in WWF is cause you suck Hulk Hogan's dick. And you suck Hulk Hogan's ass."

The Sheik on Randy Savage

This was the Sheik's reaction to a Randy savage IMPERSONATOR who called in to Howard Stern. This guy is nuts.

More

A bit more lucid, but no less hostile comments on Wrestlemania 3 and Brian Blair. Heh...this one is good.

None of this is safe for work.

I am interested in the movie for a few reasons, but I am not a Mickey Rourke fan by any means.

QUOTE (awesome possum @ Dec 21 2008, 13.57)

I think it's a combination of the physical abuse they take about 300 nights a year combined with the drugs (steroids, painkillers, booze, cocaine, etc.) they take so that they can keep performing 300 nights a year, because if they're not considered one of the top stars any time off means they go back to the bottom of the ladder, so to speak. All the damage they end up doing to themselves means that when they're 40-45, they have the bodies or organs of someone 10-30 years older.

Rodey Piper is now a shell of himself; he rants and he raves and he basically is a charicature of himself, only older and bitter (though he is my favorite wrestelr of all time). However, when lucid he makes a powerful case for some government regulation of the wrestling industry, most notably the abuse, pain and misery that wrestlers go through, not in later life, but in their primes: they tour 300 days a year (Ric Flair's book describes how he has never spent a Christmas or Thanksgiving with his famly over 26 years); they have to stay in fantastic shape, they physically abuse themselves over the course of every outing (wrestling has become far more brutal, far more "raw" in the last 15 years); in order to recover from injuries, most do steroids; in order to stay physically "pumped" for every wrestling gig, most are on anphitemeans and a large group does cocaine. Piper paints a vivid picture of the life of a wrestler who has to do this EVERY NIGHT! Its a stark look at a life nobody wants to really look at.

And because wrestling is not a (don't take this the wrong way) "merit" based sport- ie, the winner and loser is not decided as it would be in MMA or boxing -wretslers have to jump through every hoop imaginable just to continue to make a living.

And then... retierment. And the human body breaking down after years of abuse and mistreatment. And then the psychological effects. Its a gruesome way to live. As I have stated in other threads, there is a good documentary "Beyond the Mat" that cronicles the lives of Terry Funk (retireing... though he makes another comeback), Jake "The Snake" Roberts (who was still wrestling until recently and looking like shit and still doing cocaine), and Nick Foley (who retired after he saw his footagle wrestling and the reaction of his children watching him wrestle). The Foley stuff is intense, but then... you see that Jake was still wrestling, and so weer Koko Beware and Greg "The Hammer" Valentine... and they are both fat, both utterly worn down, and with NOTHING else to do.

This list gets thrown out a lot: Basically its a slighly out-of-date list of every wrestler who has died over the last three decades. And the ages are startling- usually late 30's early 40's, some getting to their 50's. But its the cause of death that is concerning- for every one wrestler in their 60's and 70's who died of heart failure or a stroke, etc, theer is a SCORE of wrestlers who died of a heart attack... at 40; or cocaine overdose, or suicide or muder.

A few days ago The Wrestler known as Mad Dog Bell died of an overdose. He was 37.

(Getting on a rant here, sorry): The first wretsler I knew who died was one of the von Erichs (wrestled in the WCCW which was dominant in the Texas area); I thought it was Kerry von Erich but it may have been David, etc. I heard that he died in the ring (I was very young -7 or 8) and this wasbefore the internet and NOBODY reported wrestling on the actual news. Later, I herad it was a plane crash, and then I came to find out it was suicide. That was the first real signal that there was something wrong. But he was a wrestler, his family was into wrestling, they never spoke about it afterwards, and they all kept wrestling like nothing bad had happened. And then... the names kept adding up and adding up.

Something has to be done; if this were ANY other sport, ther would be senate investigations. I hope the Wrestler helps shine a light on this.

This movie looks great, and I can't think of anyone else but Rourke to play the role, it's practically autobiographical.

As for investigations, that's just silly. It's perfectly reasonable to choose a life of fame and fortune and excitement (not to mention long term financial security for your family) in exchange for a decreased life expectancy and a health risk. People can live any life they choose, fully aware of the risk/consequences. We are free to judge of course, but don't presume to call for investigations or impede their choices. The "there should be a law" folks need to mind their own business.

Do a LITTLE digging before you do your usual voice of opposition. Research Vince McMahon and his tactics.

It would easier if you would just explain what you're refering to.

Why would he need to? Commodore just came out against employee safety standards.

That's stupid on a level I don't even expect from ... oh, who am I kidding, it's par for the course.

Vince McMahon is scum of the earth. When he dies, the stories that will come out about just how awful and corrupt he was will probably bury the wrestling business for good. This is a guy who suggested his own daughter get breast implants so that she would appear hotter on television.

This is a guy who, when one of his top stars started sleeping around with the girlfriend of a middling star and it became a big deal, he fired the middling star.

This is a guy who saw one of his wrestlers fall to his death, and then made the newly deceased's best friend go out and wrestle in the puddle of blood.

This is a guy who, 25 years ago, got a call from one of his top stars. Seems like this guy, known for being able to snort more cocaine in one night than anyone in this thread could probably do in a lifetime, either intentionally or unintentionally killed his girlfriend (he was known to be a violently abusive man when stoned). Vince had the wrestler act like the idiot jungle boy he portrayed on television while Vince cleared everything up with the police. The case is still open.

And that's just the icing on the shit-cake that is Vince McMahon.

QUOTE (Shryke @ Dec 24 2008, 15.34)

Why would he need to? Commodore just came out against employee safety standards.

That's stupid on a level I don't even expect from ... oh, who am I kidding, it's par for the course.

I am not against employee safety standards, as long as they are agreed to willingly by both parties (as opposed to one party being forced to adhere to such standards at the point of a gun).

With the Wrestler, you have Rourke's character regretting decisions he made and a lifestyle he willingly chose to endure, in return for short term gain (and possibly long term financial security).

Vince McMahon may be a bastard, but he can't force anyone to do anything they haven't agreed to do in a contract. The state on the other hand, can use such force. We see behavior we don't like, such as a ruthless promoter demanding things of his wrestlers that most of us would never agree to endure, and we think our own standards of human decency should be imposed on McMahon.

If Vince McMahon is violating contract agreements, that's another story.

Usually, I'm content to ignore Commodore's base contempt for reason and logic, but this? I feel compelled to say something:
1. The 'standards' of the inudtry kind of make it so these guys don't really have much else to do in case you hadn't noticed. Between killing themselves and needing to use drugs to maintain physique, their bodies take punishment night after night.
2. 'Agreed upon by both parties?' Do you not see the abject idiocy of what you just said?The guys with all the money and power make the standards and if the wrestler doesn't agree, guess who gets fucked? While I'm at it, how the HELL is the average wrestler gonna know what's fair or what's screwing them over? There is so much that's just fucking wrong with what you're advocating and you really ought to think before you make a fool of yourself.
3. 'Can't force anyone?' Uh, hello? Vince McMahon kinda holds these peoples' livelihoods over their heads and he can certainly force them by firing them if they disagree. And this isn't just a matter of relativism, this is an industry that has a shockingly high mortality rate, rampant drug abuse, total disregard for safety of its employees and the like.

Seriously, Commodore...I'm not expecting much from you...but GOD.

Sidenote: Any more about Vince McMahon here? I know a bit about him, but I would badly like people to shed light ont he scumbag

Why do we have to restrict this to wrestling?

Commodore, why should wrestling be any different from any other job? Why shouldn't their be employee safety standards?

QUOTE (Shryke @ Dec 25 2008, 01.36)

Why do we have to restrict this to wrestling?

Commodore, why should wrestling be any different from any other job? Why shouldn't their be employee safety standards?

That's a mischaracterization of my position, I say there shouldn't be mandatory standards.

The standard should be whatever both parties can agree to in the labor contract. If you want to attract good employees, you might want to ensure good work standards. Standards can still exist without threat of force, believe it or not, they can be agreed upon mutually.

Or the standard may not be necessary, it's possible the employee may be willing to forgo certain standards in exchange for significant hazard pay. Or the employer might ensure a certian level of safety, but will offset that cost by paying lower salaries.

It's the people who say "there must be" that have a draconian mindset. They want their standard imposed on all of us. You might like mandatory standards, but at root they are being imposed on both parties at the point of a gun. But that gets ignored, because you happen to agree with the standard.

What if the state mandates a 30 hour work week, but you want to work longer than that and the employer can't let you? Why should that standard be imposed on two private parties (like McMahon and the wrestler) who want to do things their own way? Why is it anyone else's business what standards they freely choose to agree on?