What do folks expect from this film? Will it succumb to the pitfalls and become a tremendously cheesy mishit? Or will we ( general public and nostalgic fans like myself) finally find a new Transformers product ( after the miserable wave of new comics and supremely childish new Transformers: Armada cartoons), one that will live up to it's great potential and present us with an awesome Sci-fi movie?

Thoughts? Excited: yeah or no?

I'd been following it's development on the producer's message board on and off for a few years now. And I've got to say...what I've seen and read has not been encouraging. The release date, however, is. A 4th of July, height of summer release means that the studio thinks this will be a MASSIVE blockbuster and are likely to put heavy resources into it. And the very least, that should mean stunning visuals.

Comics I'm sure were nice, but much like 90% of Transformers fandom, my impressions and early memories were created by the TV show. So that also becomes my frame of reference for characters and their personalities. And while Ultra Magnus no doubt makes a better soldier than a leader, I'd still take him over that punk Rodimus.

Just from reading summaries of the comics, I think I like the concepts of Grimlock and Galvatron (personalities, not origins) in the comics better than the TV show, but I don't mind what they did with them in the cartoons either. At least the early season shit with Grimlock where he was more badass idiot than just sheer idiot. Prefer Megatron over Galvatron though.

I just can't get over the comic origin for Transformers...frankly, I think it sucks. I hate that it doesn't leave any doubt as to the sentience and presence of a soul in the transformers. I found the two great warring gods concept to just be silly. Much prefered the cartoon origin, created to be functional slaves and later overthrew their masters and warred amongst eachother.

I think the opposition to Rodimus is largely that he replaced a much beloved character. THat he was the prototypical hot, young substanceless dick that every show brings in to give it new life. Kind of like a movie set 1,000 years ago that brings in the 'I can do anything', modern sentiment laden woman to kick ass and take names. It's just fucking annoying. It's the same kind of character as Wheelie and Jar Jar, they brought in to sell shit to kids...but for whatever reason the execs don't realize that people hate that shit. Even the kids.

I rewatched some old episodes on DVD and they were incredibly simplistic. With a few exceptions, the entire first season was 'Find energy source, turn into energon, get stopped by autobots'. But they weren't meant to be much. The writers and artists had a simple job...put the product on screen. These things were 20 minute long commercials and nothing more. Which is also the reason why we couldn't see our season 1 & 2 friends anymore...everyone already owned those toys, needed to show new ones to sell more. But for what they were intended to be, they weren't half bad. And some of the episodes were remarkable. THe film of course was sheer awesome. Dark Awakening was my absolute favorite episode and probably my single favorite thing I'd seen on TV as a kid. Very dark and eerie. Almost sadistic at times. Our hero comes back as a zombie villain, autobot graveyard...that was scary shit at the time.

Too bad the animation sucked, but probably some of the best writing in the series. Think they should have let Optimus die there...cause the 'return of optimus prime' I thought sucked donkey dick...even as a kid.

Question:

What about Transformers: Energon. Would that be worth picking up if you liked the original cratoon but detest Transformers:Armada? Is Energon simply a continuation of Armada?

Also, Robots in Disguise. They're appearing on DVD now, I believe this was the Japanese version or a continuation of the Transformers. Is this worthwhile?

Cal, general consensus amongst Transformers fans is that all of that shit is utter crap. If the standard transformers, G1, appealed to a 8-10 year old, that shit is meant for a 3 year old. It's got the big headed/big eyed japanese anime for the humans (that shit annoys the hell out of me, unless its porn), they also play too large of a role. They're all (from what I understand) dubbings of half assed Japanese series's with alot of the shittiest stereotypes and convetions you'd expect from their 'for kids' anime. (like them yelling 'Transform' everytime they fucking transform...hate it). General consensus is...everything since G1 (outside of Beast Wars, which has mixed but generally positive support) sucked and would be considered immature and 'kiddie' for a 5 year old.

I'd advise against it.

QUOTE (Blaine23 @ Apr 11 2006, 15.20)

Actually the Alternators line released in Japan by Takara under the name "Binaltech" are better. They're the same toys, but made of sweet, sweet, little-brother concussion-causing die-cast metal.

Eh...reminds me of one of my favorite inside jokes in the Beast Wars cartoons. They uncover the Arc millions of years before it's reactivated. Find a gigantic (compared to them at least), incapacitated Optimus sitting there in a pile of rubble...."I didn't know they'd be so big!" "Die-cast construction. It's a lost art"

I actually found most of my G1 toys to be highly durable and much better made than the shit that came later. Soundwave in particular has been the victim of countless blasts from Megatron, Shockwave, Optimus, and various GI Joe tanks that sent him flying and riccocheting off walls as hard as an 8 year old kid could throw him and all he ever got was a few nicks.

Casting News:

If all the rumored actors turn out to be a reality, I for one will be more than pleased. How about everyone else?

QUOTE

"Transformers" Cast Shaping Into Something Cool

Posted by Scott Weinberg on Friday, Apr. 21, 2006, 12:31 AM

Scott Weinberg writes: "IGN FilmForce snagged some solid scoopage by learning the names of several actors attached to Michael Bay's "Transformers" adaptation. We learned last week that Shia LaBeouf was signed up, but now comes a parade of names, including Jon Voight, Bernie Mac, John Turturro, and Michael Clarke Duncan.

From IGNFF: "IGN has confirmed through multiple sources that Oscar winner Jon Voight is in talks to reunite with his 'Pearl Harbor' director, Michael Bay, as "Keller." A casting notice online describes Keller as the U.S. Secretary of State. Voight and LaBeof previously starred together in 'Holes.'

Another Bay veteran, 'Armageddon's Michael Clarke Duncan, is closing in on the role of "Figueroa." This character is described in a casting notice posted at Sneak Peek TV as being "Dominican by way of the Louisiana Bayou. Chief Warrant officer in the Army. Spirited fellow who loves to sing. Close team member of Lennox."

And who is Lennox? Sources indicated that 'Vegas' star Josh Duhamel has a lock on the role of the young military commander."

Kind of concerned about the potential Bernie Mac role. The man can be extremely funny...he's also been extremely stupid trying to be funny at times too. And word is he's gonna play a used car salesmen of sorts. Now take Bernie Mac, car salesmen, Transformers and just about anyone can write that scene. And 9 times out of 10 it's gonna be extremely bad.

I'd heard that the issue with Bumblebee was VW's reluctance to associated their brand with anything violence or warfare related. They refused to give the rights. Not sure how much truth there is for that, but if leu of a Bug, I always thought a mini would be a perfect, modern substitute. It's a small and quirky car with the same kind of personality.

One of the first things made clear before a script attempted was that there would be no massively shrinking robots. It was decided (wisely I might add) that willing suspension of disbelief wouldn't allow the audience to buy 50 ft robots chucking the laws of physics completely by turning into 5 inch tape decks. It got a good percentage of the fanboys into a fuss...but it was a no brainer and the right move as far as I'm concerned. Giant sentient robots that turn into comparably sized vehicles via largely mechanical processes is reasonably plausable in a standard sci-fi context. Mass size shifting generally isn't, at least not in this context, and it's presence would be a needless distraction.

And Megatron is a tank. Gun was never a serious option because of the size issue and public image. It's a new day n age and Hasbro can't exactly be selling handgun toys to kids that much anymore. And certainly not realistic looking ones.

And I'd love to see the Grimlock character myself, but his alt mode goes against the 'Robots in Disguise' concept the filmmakers are pushing. Nothing deceptive about a gigantic, robotic dinosaur walking down Lake Shore Drive. He's popular amongst comic and cartoon fans though, and really is a great character. Give him a different alt mode, which shouldn't be too hard to brainstorm, than shove him in the sequel. At least that's what I'd like to see.

Like most everyone, I'm cautiously optomistic. I don't want this movie to suck...even though I think it probably will.

For your eyeballs: the movie trailer went live

Decepticons are from Mars, Autobots are from Venus...

Seriously, a Teaser is supposed to excite. It's a 10-20 second piece of film, not necessarily even in the film itself, that's supposed to give you just enough to wet the appetite.

It's not supposed to turn you off on the project. I'm as big a Transformers fan as anyone, and I was WTFing!!?? through this shit. Giant Transforming robots is cheesey enough for the casual consumer, there's no fucking reason to make them from godamned Mars. (even if that's not their actual point of origin, the location still comes with alot of unsavory baggage in the popular psyche).

Why the hell Mars??!! Who's fucking brilliance was this? Trainwreck waiting to fucking happen.

I was one of the first and loudest 'No Shrinkage' supporters on the Transformers movie forum when the concept was announced and remain so. Giant, walking, sentient robots are well within the typical bounds of Sci-Fi plausability for the casual, serious, and even non-genre fans....something the size of a tank instantly shrinking to something the size of a tapedeck...isn't. Further it looks silly and raises the questions of 'If they can alter size like this, why can't all of them? Why aren't they a thousand times larger? Why don't they shrink to the size of a wallet and explode in people's pockets, killing them in droves, etc, etc' That aside though...I don't think anyone in this thread has advocated that.

As for the redesigns, not sure. What Bay and his team thinks 'looks cool' may not translate well to the rest of the audience come movie time. And from what I've seen 'looking cool' seems to be his main criteria for all of these designs. I have no problem with them being altered from the originals, but this is a film whose support and audience will largely be built off of nostalgia. These robot forms should at the very least be recognizable as their original counterpart. Optimus and Bumblebee are familiar enough, not sure that Megatron is. I think the designs suffer from overdoing it as well. Seemed like they played a game of 'how many twists, turns, points and jagged edges of metal can we shove onto a tiny surface'. Didn't seem to be much purpose for alot of it. Now not enjoying the new designs does not mean someone wants a carbon copy of the cartoon, simply a disagreement with their approach.

As for vehicle modes, no problem generally with most. Don't even mind Optimus's trucktype turning from the snubnosed to the long-nosed semi. The former always seemed kind of pussyish as trucks go. But the flames are just fricken silly...a bit much. And seem once more the brainchild of an overgrown kid (aka, Bay) thinking to himself 'Wow, wouldn't that look neat'. I'd give a bit more benefit of the doubt if there was a different team in charge of this, but Bay doesn't exactly have the best track record...on just about anything.

As for the audience...got to disagree. Obviously this is a summer blockbuster and they will try to appeal to everyone. But nostalgia will be a HUGE selling point. Now that doesn't mean just the people who watched the show religiously, gobbled up the comics, and still buy toys today. But some aspects of that show have become a bit iconic (Optimus has anyway), being familiar and warm/fuzzy to the 20-30 something's that barely even remember watching the show. When that trailer played before Pirates, it got a bigger 'Wow, OMG, So COOL!' than anything else in the film we paid to see, and those were largely from people who would have been kids when the original showed...or even slightly younger. Transformers has become, to some extent, a bit of cultural Americana...though obviously relegated to the 80's. It needed updating, but the audience will be largely those who are already generically familiar with the very basics of it.

And as for the kids, they have a remarkable knack for enjoying (though it's debatable whether they actually appreciate) movies that aren't dumbed down to their level. Things that are written with an interested adult in mind often translate well to the screaming little shit machines too. The only ones that get uptight about the shit are the squeamish parents. So alienating them as an audience shouldn't be a HUGE concern, nor should they be the main target. But if you make pokemon in giant machines, you WILL alienate a large chunk of the more mature audience.

I'm generally open to most changes. I'm looking for a somewhat mature film that treats the subject matter with respect (but not necessarily a serious film. It's giant, talking robots...have a little fun). Something along the lines of X-men 2 in tone and flavor would be nice. Nothing in Bay's history tells me that he has respect for anything however.

I'm tentatively predicting a trainwreck. I'll still be there opening night however and the film will make money.

QUOTE

The group will also include Scorponok, a giant scorpion-creature who attacks the soldiers in the Iraqi desert. "When you see him in the movie," Orci said, "You're gonna see that in the environment he's in, he comes in very handy."

Eh...this part sort of pissed me off. Was a fan clamoring on the board for having Grimlock in this one or the sequel. Mainly because he's one of the most interesting characters in the Transformers universe. The response from the producer; "That's fucking stupid. These are 'Robots in Disguise', that means cars, trucks, and plains and shit. I'm not gonna have a giant fucking barney dinosaur running around in my movie!"

And yet apparently a giant fucking scorpian is ok. Could be a Michael Bay addition, since his choices would presumably trump the producer's. That said, only two recognizable decepticons. And none of them soundwave. Kinda sucks.

Those reviews were pretty good. Checked out some other ones RT where its tracking at 70% right now. If you consider only the print journalists (not random joe's with a website), its doing even better. The early overseas numbers are excellent, making more per screen than any other film. #2 overseas for the weekend, second only to Shrek 3 (which is on almost 3 times as many screens). 31 or 34 million in only ten markets. Not bad.

Everything I've read says its tracking incredibly well here as far as interest goes. Everyone I know, geek or not, is excited about this film. Its got the holiday weekend going for it. The overall positive critical reviews can't hurt. And each and every one of them said this thing had some jaw-dropping, revolutionary, 'never seen before' effects and action sequences. Definately excited. Definately seeing it ASAP.

Trying to articulate my thoughts about this film, and the reasons for my disappointment in it, after having really looked forward to it for about two years despite people naysaying it because Bay was directing it. I do want to say in advance that most of my issues with this film have little to nothing to do with how faithful it is to the cartoon. I take it as a given that it is not, because I went into it knowing that from all the info I already had.

The bad:

1) There is just way too much action in this film. The second hour of the film is literally non-stop action. There are so many things exploding left and right that you simply don't know where to look and when to breathe. Clearly the director does not know that you can have too much of a good thing. One of the things this film desperately needed is a couple of quieter scenes in the second half of the movie that allow people to get their bearings and to allow the director to actually bring some intrigue and depth to the story, rather than continious weaponry.

2) The dialogues are just awful. It's not as bad with the other Autobots as it is with Prime, but still. The stuff that comes out of his mouth is just ripe with uber-sentimentality. His willingness to let Bumblebee, a valued member of his crew for millions of years, be dragged off, tortured and almost killed by the Sector 7 guys met not just with disagreement from his fellow Autobots, it also felt very uncool to me. And why? Because a human might be harmed. After that comes a volley of credo's about the goodness of humans, and what they are entitled to.

3) Suspension of disbelief. I'm big on suspension of disbelief. I read science fiction and Fantasy and am willing to make massive leaps in order for a story to work. I am willing to believe that 30feet alien lifeforms with a very advanced culture and advanced artificial intelligences can exist. I am also willing to believe they are developed enough to take on forms that they encounter on our Earth. No problem with that.

It becomes problematic when these creatures, advanced as they are supposed to be, are afraid of human parents, generally can't stop bumbling around or exist as comic relief, or are not even remotely more intelligent than humans. It becomes even harder to suspend disbelief when they start talking like US rappers. You simply cannot think of creatures from a faraway planet behaving like teenagers in robotic body.

It's clear that the movie is focused on pre-teens and teens. But I thought it would be for adults as well, and that it would be more adult at least than the cartoon. It's not.

4) Blurriness. Most of the camera action when the Transformers are fighting is very shaky and very close-up. I was watching the movie with my gf and the thing that annoyed her most was that you almost never get to see the Transformers from a distance, to get a good idea of what they are like when they fight each other. The final Megatron vs Prime fight starts out nicely, but ends in a blurr of movements and is of course ultimately decided by............

I was just expecting more from the fight scenes between the Transformers. We know from the film they can take on forms they encounter on Earth. But then this is not used inventively at all in the fight sequences. At one point they did have have huge Morningstars and swords though, which was cool. They just should have shown a lot more of that rather than army boys shooting their guns.

5) This film proves that the film could have been about Transformers alone with any human characters except for Sam Witwicky. None of the people have any depth, but you could expect that. The problem was that many of them were flat out annoying, from the insane Sector 7 agent to the blond-haired beauty with the thick Australian accent who of course also happened to be a prime hacker to the female lead who in the middle of the film's climax, when everything is exploding around her, still finds time to quietly step towards Witwicky and tell him she was glad she stepped in the car with him. WTF??

6) Decepticons very underused, to the point where Starscream is pretty much absent.

The good:

1) The start of the film has some great touches of humour. Bay does show he has some skill here.

2) Le Boeuf ( Witwicky) does very well as the main lead. He is funny and charming and makes reasonable sense.

3) Some of the CGI scenes with the Transformers are excellent, and they make the film worth seeing. I thought the scene with Prime vs Bonecrusher was the highlight of the film rather than the final one between Prime and Megs. A little Terminator II style combat there.

Conclusion: could indeed have been a very good film with a different director. It's clear the budget was huge, the effects were often fantastic, but the material isn't really worked with on any level other than catering to a very young audience with big explosions, pretty girls and laughable dialogues.

Calibandar really summed up most of my thoughts on the film fairly accurately.

It had alot of elements that worked...and many (possibly many more) that failed...some miserably. Most of what I didn't like about the film was prototypical Michael Bay.

The Bad:

Guvment Experts-

Why in Michael Bay films do you always have to have some unorthodox teenage hacker/deep sea drilling crew showing up government experts, finding the secrets with relative ease that all the best and brightest of the nation can't seem to scratch. Even worse, in this film, you didn't really need them. They weren't the heros to destroy the asteroid. The blonde Aussie chick...I don't know what she was there for and the black hacker was comic relief in a film that already had enough of it. They could have completely eliminated their storyline, lost nothing necessary to the film, and either made it much tighter or offered some character and dialogue to the Transformers (ya know, the 'stars' of a movie called 'Transformers') that was sorely lacking throughout. I can almost guarantee that those characters were not in the original script. They have Michael Bay meddling written all over them.

Autobot dialogue Cheese-

I will say this right now with a straight face. The robots had infinitely better dialogue and behaved more maturely in the 1986 animated movie. Hell, their only good lines were taken straight from the cartoon. None of them but Optimus said anything relevant beyond comic relief. And even that was somewhat strained. Which leads me to my next problem...

Lifeless Robots-

Bumblebee and Optimus. Thats it. None of the other Transformers had the slightest bit of personality, largely because they weren't given any lines to have a personality. The decepticons had nothing whatsoever. They did jack shit with Starscream. Nothing was developed on any of them. Just some random shit about killing humans by Mega. The autobots had a cheesier introduction than anything I'd ever seen in the cartoon, a few clunky 'fish out of water' scenes, and that was it. This of course means that when some of them inevitably die...it falls flat. How can you feel saddened by the death of characters you never knew? The spaceship scene in the 1986 animated movie was 100 times more poignant, gripping, and sad.

The Action-

Much like Cal said, there were some awesome moments. But too much of it was ruined by quick cuts, a lack of wide shots, and no way to orientate yourself as to what exactly is going on. Prototypical Bay. For all the props that Michael Bay gets for his big explosions and effects, the man cannot direct an intense action sequence to save his life. Michael Mann action scenes are a visual feast. They're coordinated to give the audience an appreciation of what's going on and who's doing what to who. Every shot, every explosion (not that he has alot of them), perfectly timed for maximum effect...and no quick cut cheating. Bay just has shit flying around incoherently with alot of explosions. He cannot do action.

Have I Seen this before?-

Not a major concern, but a secret underground government facility hiding advanced alien technology that bites us in the ass cause the Men in Black decided not to let everyone else know about it? Think they'll get sued by the creators of Independence Day?

The Good-

Shia Lebouf was far and away the best thing in this film. The early scenes of the film with him and the beat up camarro Bumblebee worked very well. Funny as hell, well paced, and a great slow introduction to the robots. (not counting the actual cheesey introduction later) The girl worked as suitable eye-candy with just enough dialogue and depth to seem like more than pretty furniture.

The typical, cliched high school clique stuff was grating but mercifully short. Why Hollywood has this morbid fascination with a gross oversimplification of everything that was youth and high school I have no idea. Or why Shia Labouf, an otherwise normal, decent looking kid would be picked on I also didn't grasp. Apparently in Hollywood land, not making the football team is enough. And oh yeah...jocks are dumb. Always. But that wasn't the focus of the show and it was brief enough not to seriously detract from it.

Bumblebee and the radio. Oddly enough, the robot was the most emotive and had the strongest personality when he couldn't talk. Some definate great moments there and I'll stress again the humor which seemed to always work well early on.

John Tutturo- I've got to disagree with Cal here. I thought he played the super-secret MiB (Sector 7) government type with just enough cheese to work. Not completely over the top, but he knew what kind of role he was in and played it up for max. effect. I thought he was hilarious and played a decent enough pseudo-side-villain.

The Action and Effects- How can it be good and bad? Even with Michael Bay's ADD approach to action sequences, there were still some amazing shots and OMG! moments. Newfangled designs aside, the robots also looked startlingly real. The real models and CGI meshed perfectly and on screen, even when you knew it was CG, with a glance it coulda been either one. Their bodies were sufficiently brought to life...maybe with a better director their personalities might be too.

Conclusion:

I found enough to like about this film to call it an enjoyable experience. I was in there for 2 and a half hours and it didn't really feel like it. There was alot that was unnecessary. Alot that was poorly done. I didn't touch on the massive plot holes or logical gaps...that'd take another whole review for those, but I was ready and willing to forgive them if the other shit worked. The other shit was hit and miss. I've always said that I have no problem with reimaginings of a franchise to a new medium so long as they maintain the core personalities and motivations of the characters. That is perhaps Bay's biggest failing. I can say without a doubt that he didn't take the franchise seriously. This isn't X-men one undeveloped side characters. This is a movie called Transformers where every Transformer but Optimus had almost no dialogue and served no purpose beyond comic relief (bumblebee also excepted from that one), if they served any purpose at all. Early in the process, we were promised 1/3 Witwicky, 1/3 military-government, and 1/3 Transformers. That ratio was skewed to hell here. No depth. No dialogue. No character. None of them. That is probably the most unforgivable thing of all.

Michael Bay is an ass-licking whore.

Bah. The more I think about this, the more I want to pick up my cellphone, dial the Hollywood tourist bureau, lift it up to my mouth and shout 'BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!' at the top of my lungs while my body shakes and face contorts.

Than i want to build a shrine to James Cameron. Or Ridley Scott. Or Spielberg for that matter and worship them into saving this franchise. To turn it into what it could and should have been.

Fuck it.

I'm throwing on the original Transformers movie.

Getting more into logical gaffs and bad (IMO) decision-making now.

Weak Transformers: In the trailer narration (absent from the film however), Voight politely informs us that these mechanical beasts represent an alien intelligence with a technology far superior to our own. A couple of problems with that, first there may be superior tech but not a hint of superior intellect. In fact whenever the Transformers did anything but blow shit up they came off as downright naive, silly, or dumb. Further, if the tech is so vastly superior, how the hell could earth munitions batter them around so easily? Sure they took alot of hits, but we're talking essentially a mechanized platoon or so of humans taking down 5 decepticons with a bit of help. How are these guys going to continue to be a thread when we start managing coordinated strikes with the full might of our military? And how could high-heat rounds hurt them exactly if these guys survived re-entry into the atmosphere without a scratch? Or that whole crash-landing into earth as meteors stuff?

They don't necessarily need to be invulnerable to humanity, but pretty damned near. I was looking forward, in this film or the next, to the ethical and moral dilemmas of whether to use high powered bombs or potentially nukes against near-invincible Decepticons savaging an urban area.

Powered down for the city fight: The helicopter guy in the opening scene anniliated an entire airbase in about 30 seconds, using waves of area effect munitions that turned dozens of tanks into cinders in one blow. I didn't see any of that hardware on display in the city fight near the end, nor any similar effects, and the explosions were much more subdued. Also the Tank Decepticon...why exactly would his alt-mode armament fire rounds no more effective than a random earth invented tank? If the robot mode guys could take out small buildings with a shot, why is his gun so pussy-ish by comparison?

Keep it secret: Ummm...who exactly are they keeping giant alien robots secret from when they already destroyed half of a major American city? You'd need an MiB mind-wiper the size of Texas to cover all those witnesses.

Collateral Damage: Sure they had to keep the PG-13 rating, but did every single human that was inches away from building sized collapsing debris or falling transformers have to get up and scurry away? Its like I was watching a bad episode of GI Joe with their automatic, never fails insta-eject systems. Also, Optimus refuses to save his friend and comrade from human kidnappers because he might hurt some earthlings. But has no problems duking it out in the middle of a city and likely killing several thousand in the process.

I can think of about a dozen more. All around, these are the things you can forgive if everything else works. (like the characters, the drama, the conflict). Since it didn't...thse things stand out glaringly.