QUOTE (Calibandar @ Jul 4 2007, 04.02)

One of the most cringeworthy scenes in the film is the moment when Barricade nails down and Sam and utters the following lines:

"Are you Ladiesman 217!!!?? Where is E-bay item 567? Where are the glaaaaasssesss!!!!!!"

Heh...I'd differ there. I think the absurdity of a giant robot saying that in such a menacing tone makes the humor work. I don't mind a little cheese with my Transformers, being giant alien robots and all, so long as its not too excessive and played primarily for the humor that sort of stuff is good for.

Cringeworthy for me was the autobot intro scene. The drawn out scene of autobots playing hide and seek in Witwicky's backyard, clumsily falling all over themselves as they destroyed his mom's rose garden. (they dragged that one out way too long) Jazz talking. Optimus exposition time and sappy speech time. (The sappy speech could have worked with a bit more buildup and context.) To be fair, Cullen's voice acting was generally good (better than any other out there by far), just that the lines they gave him were terrible. I heard that Bay wrote most of the robot dialogue himself after the CGI was rendered...it shows.

QUOTE (Calibandar @ Jul 4 2007, 04.02)

In the beginning they are pretty much invulnerable and it takes a whole squadron of jet fighters to scare off Scorponok, let alone Blackout who is totally out of the human's league. Apparantly because the army group at the end consists of a group of sympathetic characters the weapons are much more effective.

Yeah that annoyed me. Even worse the 'hit em underneath/from behind, the armor is weaker there!' line from one of the soldiers. Curious how they became experts on alien defense systems so quickly. Maybe the NSA should hire them along with blonde teenage Aussie coeds.

Actually thought this review summed up my thoughts on Bay fairly well...

QUOTE (Calibandar @ Jul 4 2007, 04.02)

Michael Bay is the directorial equivalent of a sociopath. See, a sociopath knows that people express certain emotions and say certain things in specific situations, so he becomes very good at faking it so that nobody realizes that he's a sociopath. He doesn’t actually feel or understand those emotions that he's mimicking, but sociopaths are good enough actors that they get away with it.

Similarly, Bay knows that certain things are supposed to happen at certain times in movies, so he puts those things there because he knows people expect them. "This is where the wisecracking sidekick shows up? give him something funny to say," Bay will demand. "I'll have Jon Voight exiting the helicopter in slow motion, because people really like that slow-motion thing," he'll say.

It's been ten minutes since an explosion? Better blow something up! Nothing funny's happened for awhile? Toss Bernie Mac in as a used-car salesman! Not enough sex in the robot movie? Dress the teenage love-interest like a hooker and have the camera linger on her overly tan torso! (EHK Edit. I had absolutely no problem with this portion. That girl was SMOKIN!)

Michael Bay is so adept at faking being a filmmaker, in fact, that people actually think he knows what he’s doing even though his movies are soulless, charmless, big-budget monstrosities made by a man with all the creative aesthetic of a nine-year-old blowing up plastic Army guys in his back yard.

Interesting little tidbit of Hollywood infighting. As most who followed the earliest development of Transformers knows, the film was initiially shopped around by producers Tom Desanto (a self professed geek and major fanboy of the franchise) and Don Murphy. They were turned down by most major studios, but persisted for months and longer til they finally found someone to do the project. While the final vision of the film was not theirs, it is safe to say that we would not have a Transformers film without them.

Apparently Michael Bay wasn't a big fan of them (or the Transformers fans, who he has compared to internet stalkers. Or the Transformers franchise which he's called a 'stupid toy film') and expressed his thoughts in his blog. He later thought better of it and took the comments down, but they've been preserved and presented here for your viewing pleasure.

Bay's Blog on Desanto and Murphy

QUOTE (Michael Bay)

Besides I believe American movies that portray America, should be made in America. I cut my fee 30% so I could make this at home. I knew this was right for the movie so I asked the other producers to join - Ian and Lorenzo did, and the two others (that came attached to the project) Tom Desanto and Don Murphy did not. That was my introduction to them - they did not want any part of their fee going to make a better movie. Things like that don’t usually sit well with me.

Now that the movie is done I get strange questions from the press. Like 'how did Tom control the set'? What? 'How did Tom and Don control you?' What the fuck. 'How was it working with Tom and Don who knew Transformers so well?' 'We heard Tom wrote the story - he had a 90 page treatment, right?' Okay stop. Let me take you back in time. Tom and Don are very nice guys, but let's get some facts straight.

Tom had one creative meeting with me for one hour and ten minutes to be exact about a year ago. He told he was the über fan boy and was going to protect me from the minefields. The type of minefields on the Net like 'Damn you Michael Bay' 'You wrecked my childhood Michael Bay' and other various web death threats I received. Tom proceeded to tell me how much he had problems with the robot designs and script issues. I realized he was worlds apart in my vision. I said thank you very much, and then showed him my office door - I never really spoke to him again other then to mutter hello. He would occasionally come to the set with guests like it was some theme park. I never spoke creatively with Don. I read his notes kind of trashing the script and making me and the writers feel like a big shit pile. But during production Don was nice to me, he knew I was not going to talk creative with him.

One day not too long ago, the writers of our movie Alex and Bob called me in a panic saying all of a sudden after the movie was almost finished in post that Tom was applying for writer's or story credit. I was appalled because neither the writer’s nor I ever saw any treatment. Well, he applied for credit, but the Writer's Guild shot him down, denied him.

But what made my blood curl was something that was on the Net with Tom at the Saturn awards on IESB.net where they interviewed him about the movie - a movie I might add he had not seen yet. He acted very much like he did. Check it out as he vamps through the questions, and how Hugo put his 'thumb print on it'. Give me a break, the guy was lying through his teeth - he had seen nada, nothing, until the press screening.

So that's the real truth, I had to say it, cause I'm tired of answering these questions.

What these guys did do was stuck with a 'silly toy movie' and pushed it around town and kept the faith after everyone turned them down, always with the hope that maybe someone somewhere would make it. Now I commend them on that. Hats off to them, but trying to taking creative credit in the press let me just say it - irks me. Too many credits are given to too many people who had nothing to do with the movie. Hell, even investment bankers with not the slightest idea of how to make a movie all of a sudden are big producers in town.

I guess that's how it goes in Hollywood.
Michael Bay

QUOTE (The Scabbard Of the Morning @ Jul 6 2007, 01.40)

I don't know if I can blame this all on Michael Bay, he didn't write the script did he? The script was horrendous, I don't think any director could have made a decent movie with this script.

The original script was written by Jon Rogers. When Bay became attached he had his own people, Orci and Kurtzmen, perform the rewrite. He had almost complete creative control. Wrote much of the Transformer dialogue himself after the CGI was done. Fought against all outside oversight. And made nearly all the major decisions from robot design to the rest.

This was very much Michael Bay's film. Almost entirely really. He deserves full 'credit' for it all.

You guys must be nuts, me and my friends saw it last night and thought it was fucking the most amazing movie ever. I'm sober now and still think the same thing.

Optimus Prime couldn't have been realized better as an awesome leader/heroic character. When he showed up for the first time the timing and pacing of the whole movie leading up to that moment really paid off--hell the theater I was in nearly went into standing ovation.

Bumble Bee was a greatly realized too and somehow, despite having no true speaking lines, came off as very sympathetic and likable. The silly Sector 7 guys were hilarious. Instead of being tough and menacing they were funny as hell and there was a lot of funny moments in this movie.

The special effects were the best I ever saw. It's as my friend said as we left the theater--"what they didn't use real robots?" I seriously have never seen such good CGI. Giant robot battles, hot hot hot women, and a pretty good storyline considering the source material.

Now this next part is hard to say because I have never NEVER liked Michael Bay...but I think he did a great job with this one. He didn't focus on humans so his terrible dialogue didn't come across as horrible when uttered from the mouth of something so cool as Optimus. You could tell he really loved Transformers as much as me and tried to make the characters as cool as he could. I loved Starscream--I disagree with sentiments above that he was wasted. Sure the decepticons were largely non verbal in the movie but they were freakin' awesome. When they mobilize to get the cube I got goosebumps. The convoys with Optimus leading, the great cars, the Autobots--god damn I can't tell about all the cool moments.

I mean I don't think I've seen a better summer action movie. I thought it was so good I nearly burned my whole DVD collection when I came home because nothing else was the same. The whole "one shall stand one shall fall line" brought back bittersweet memories. Nostalgia--there's another reason this movie was so good.

QUOTE (steele @ Jul 6 2007, 00.58)

You could tell he really loved Transformers as much as me and tried to make the characters as cool as he could.

Ummm...this is actually the furthest thing from the truth. He has absolute disdain for Transformer fans, comparing them to internet stalkers. He knows nothing about the franchise, called it a 'stupid toy film', has stated that he couldn't bare to watch more than a few minutes of the old cartoon. At least most directors talk a good game and pretend some understanding of the source material when adapting a franchise to film. He wears his open contempt on his sleeve.

QUOTE (steele @ Jul 6 2007, 00.58)

He didn't focus on humans so his terrible dialogue didn't come across as horrible when uttered from the mouth of something so cool as Optimus.

Except the humans made up probably 70% of the screen time. Accounted for 90%+ of the dialogue. And the only really fleshed out characters were human. (possible exceptions for Bumblebee...and maybe Optimus.)

Starscream? What did he do? He had the trailer friendly, slo-mo money shot transforming and sending cars flying. And he blew up some jets in a cool, but ultimately too short clip. Nothing else to speak of.

QUOTE (aeu @ Jul 6 2007, 21.51)

Michael Bay is probably the biggest hack in the movie business, but I doubt he's stupid enough to call the biggest film of his career a "stupid toy film".

He's made other comments to this effect. He initially refused to do the film because of this. Only Spielberg was able to convince him that he should do the movie. Bay very much believes that, have no doubt. He has nothing but contempt for the fans and utter disinterest and disdain for the source material.

I don't need the guy to be a fan though. My first (and really only) priority is a good film. But since he didn't deliver that, its open season on the rest.

QUOTE (Brady @ Jul 9 2007, 05.35)

Thinking back on the film, I'm wondering if it wasn't intended to be a little bit satirical towards big budget summer blockbusters. Michael Bay is the King of Cheese, sure, but - the secretary of defence blasting robots with a shotgun? The cute wil dog ... with a cast on it's leg? Its like they took all the cliches from things like Independence Day and deliberately went even further with them.

Michael Bay is neither that intelligent nor that subtle. Not a chance.

Bay interview:

Couple shots at France. Took almost full personal credit for the CGI and for giving the robots 'soul'. Ripped on the original franchise 5 times or so. Apparently told Hasbro and others that 'its my way or the highway'

Here's wishing they'd have sent him on his way.

QUOTE (Rockroi @ Jul 9 2007, 13.05)

Megatron despises Starscream

There was hat tipping in the film as you say. But sadly nothing more than that.

QUOTE (Rockroi @ Jul 9 2007, 13.05)

I liked how the Decepticons felt that they had to neutralize the US government (or face destruction). If the Decepticons had nothing to fear from the military, there is no point to the movie. I liked how they used that entire plot device.

Eh? I don't know where you got that. The film was a MacGuffin chase. Crippling the US government (Hacker/Virus storyline) was just a bonus. And as you (and others) mentioned with all the extraneous characters, probably a rather needless one. Their entire purpose throughout the film was 'getting the cube and Megatron'. The point of the film could have very easily been near invincible (with earth tech) Autobots against near invincible decepticons and still worked. It just would have required more development of those title characters. As it stands now, a few choppers/planes and some infantry can take out a Decepticon. Assuming the US guvment installs Norton Anti-virus 10,000!...they're not really all that much of a threat. Nor are the autobots strictly necessary to defeat them.

And if they were defeated and helpless (from all appearances, dead), you'd figure we'd take out Transformer injuring weapons and dismember, than incinerate the shit out of them before dumping the pieces in the ocean. Right now, computer virus's aside, North Korea and Iran are a bigger threat than Megatron and pals. And that's kind of sad.

QUOTE (HP Loveshaft @ Jul 16 2007, 16.02)

Come on guys, did everyone seriously expect characterization from Transformers? Even the original cartoon didn't have much, beyond some basic character archetypes and "Starscream and Megatron don't get along".

Title characters. Comprise (almost) the entirety of the heroes and villains in the old source material (cartoons). And at least the pretense of those title characters doing 'somewhat' similar here. 2+ hour movie vs. 22 minute, 20 year old kids cartoon. Yeah...call me silly, I expected some characterization. I expected a bit more than 'DA ALIENS ATTACK!...this time with ROBOTS!'...I've seen that movie before. If they're to expect me to give a shit about any 'heroic sacrifices' and 'tragic deaths', than I'm gonna expect them to develop characters that i can actually give a shit about. It ain't rocket science.

QUOTE (HP Loveshaft @ Jul 16 2007, 16.02)

I personally thought the movie was a blast, even if it had some bad moments. I'd rather watch that than 3 hours of deep robot character development and drama.

Urge to beat with a fricken baseball bat rising...seriously, skip the damned strawmen. Developing the title characters does not turn this into a 3 hour film nor does it stop it from being an action movie. Die Hard is an action film with developed characters that we liked and cared about. Aliens did the same with a large, ensemble cast and still remained a kickass action film.

This film in particular spent more than enough time trying to develop characters. The problem was, most of them were human characters. Irritating, disposable, and forgettable human characters often in equally disposable sideplots. (The analyst/hacker was unforgivable, the soldiers mediocre but not strictly necessary, and Sam rocked.) Take the time they wasted on them, apply it towards developing the Transformers as actual characters, keep the same damned running time and big action...except this time around you actually give a shit when an autobot dies or the good guys are getting pummeled.

QUOTE (Blaine23 @ Jul 19 2007, 00.17)

Fair enough. But for craps and giggles, check back with me in a year when the whiz-band newness of the effects isn't so great. I really think this is one of those movies that people will laugh at how badly it holds up.

To be fair, I think the effects are gonna hold up for quite a while. I honestly thought this was probably the best CGI on film to date. It literally was photo-realistic and meshed perfectly with the real world sets and backgrounds. That said, Bay made extremely poor use of this near flawless CGI, which definately hurt the film. But the look was amazing, though not necessarily the actual designs, the direction, or the action.

But there are very few CGI heavy films where I can buy that I'm watching anything other than a high priced video game. Star Wars Prequels? Absolutely not. But this one? Yeah...I bought that I was actually watching 40 foot robots on screen. Unfortunately nothing in the film (outside of maybe Cullens voice) convinced me that I was actually watching 40 foot Transformers on screen, just robots.

QUOTE (Blaine23 @ Jul 19 2007, 00.59)

ID4 had the most amazing effects of its day. And people loved it walking out of the theater. Now?

Oh I agree it may end up like that Blaine, just saying that I think it'll be a pretty good while before the actual effects are surpassed. But yeah, it is amazing how forgettable ID4 has become. Myself, I was blown away at the theatre (for ID4) and still think it was an enjoyable film. (Absurd plot devices excepted). But its not one that I ever have any urge to watch again. (and if it happened to come on...I'd probably look for something better)

The more I think on it, Transformers and Independence Day (ID4) are pretty analogous.

Amazing effect sequences that redefine summer blockbuster CGI? Check for both.
Witty, charismatic lead performance by an up and comer? Check for both Will Smith and Shia LaBouf (who really carries the turd as far as he can on charm)
Absurd military fetish subplots? Check and double check. The sheer dumbness of leading enemy monsters into a crowded city can only be matched by letting a drunken Randy Quaid pilot a jet. With the president as his wingman.
Hammy awful acting from established actors? John Turturro and Jon Voigt got nothing on Robert Loggia and Bill Pullman.
Really dumb smart people? The king of dumb smart people Jeff Goldblum must hand over the crown to Anthony Anderson and his sheila hacker pal.
Terrible directors who really should work as effects DPs? Emmerich and Devlin and merely weaker clones of Michael Bay.
Unrealistic, poorly realized aliens? Yep yep.
Insanely contrived climax that really doesn't make much sense? Piloting an enemy ship and uploading a virus with a Macbook is only slightly dumber than the "hey, what if I stick the Allspark in Megatron's chest instead?" ending.

The only thing that Transformers brought to it was an established nostalgic license to be debased... and Megan Fox. One of those is a good thing. The other... not so much.

Blaine, you forgot 'secret underground facility storing hidden alien technology'.
Touched on 'Wacky outsiders showing up government experts'

As for why all the Cube-sparked devices turn evil. WARNING: Geek speculation. (semi-confirmed by the writers who may or may not have been just going along with fan rationalizations)

Since all modern technology was 'reverse engineered' (lame throw away line that served no purpose) from Megatron, it is all inherently evil. That's right, you heard it, technology is inherently evil.

Slightly better theory is that newly concscious machines are for all intents and purposes infants. Incredibly strong and potentially destructive infants who, since they haven't been socialized or civilized in the least, just throw a city destroying tantrum when they're 'born'.

I'll also concur with most of the geek masses that Beast Wars was some of the best shit ever to come out of the Transformers franchise. And that it started with writers who didn't know jack shit about Transformers and didn't have the first clue as to what they were doing makes it even more remarkable. Some awesome episodes. Loved when they found the Ark and reinhabited the gigantic (comparatively, the Beast Bots were more advanced, smaller, power-saving models...probably Japanese) Optimus Prime carcass. 'Die Cast construction...its a lost art' (great jab at the newer toys)

It was probably the first decent bit of Transformers on screen that put the show as a higher priority than the toys. Even the '86 film existed primarily to introduce a new toy line.

That said, I I've still got a few of the earliest issues of Transformers (if they were in decent condition, I might see what I could get for my Transformers 1-6), but I was never really into comics. Cartoons were always my crack of choice.

As for this new cartoon...got to say that I can't really stand the animation. I know the original Transformers has some influences from it, but as a general rule, I HATE ANIME. I hate anything that looks like a lame dragonball Z/Pokemon knockoff. I don't want big eyed, big-headed, multi-colored haired, disproportional little goblin fucks for my human cast. I want mostly visual realism for the proportions and movements of my giant robot cast. Actually found it almost painful to look at. But hell...they could take a shit and mix it around with chopsticks, slap an autobot logo on it and it'd still be better than RiD and Armada.

My ideal new Transformers cartoon would probably be a G1 update with Beast Wars style CG animation.

QUOTE

ANTHONY ANDERSON

I'm fat! And black! That's fucking comedy gold right there!

RACHAEL TAYLOR

Anthony, I need your help.

ANTHONY ANDERSON

With figuring out what's hacking into the government computers?

RACHAEL TAYLOR

No, I just need character that's even more worthless than me so that I seem relevant to the story.

They fail to figure out what is hacking

Soooo...true.

QUOTE (Greywolf2375 @ Jul 30 2007, 08.19)

EHK, depending upon what condition those 1-6 are, I might be interested. I think I got 10 copies of the issue Prime died in (24) and 10 when he came back as a PowerMaster (42) in the event those would be worth something. I always got at least 2 - one to read, one to store

I recall one where Optimus Prime's head got detached and tossed around like a football, but I don't know if he was actually considered 'dead' at that point. I'd probably have to go to the parents house and dig this shit up. Packed away over a decade ago with alot of my other toys.

I do know that I didn't really take care of my toys as a kid. Actually, I was downright brutal. Thank god (most) Transformers were well made back in the day because it was amazing how many times Soundwave got hit with a GINORMOUS energy blast and got thrown against the wall as hard as a 5 year old can manage.

The new Transformer cartoons are all pretty shite, even by kids' standards. The problem is that all of the newer cartoons are collaborations between US and Japanese studios, but with equal creative control. So whilst the plots are slightly more comprehensible than the average Japanese kiddy anime, they're still pretty appalling. Why some TF fans have embraced these new shows is beyond me.

A more adult-oriented Transformer G1 anime, on the other hand, could be awesome.

Oh I absolutely agree that the new cartoon look blows. Heavy trend towards shit anime everywhere you look. Never understood that shit. Big heads, bug-eyes, brightly, unnaturally colored hair, exxagerated characteristics and mannerisms....How the fuck is that appealing? How does that become the standard? Why all the hate for realistic proportions?

The shit is evil and needs ot be banned.

If their art sucks and has nothing but grossly exxagerated proportions for everything. And their voice acting is atrocious. And their stories (for the kids shows) are either inane drivel or incoherent messes...

How the hell do the Japanese get a reputation for their quality animation?

QUOTE (Flayed Man @ Dec 21 2007, 09.35)

Seriously? She was the love interest, right? Her skin looked like someone had put her in an oven in preparation for thanksgiving. The oldest movie "teenager" I've ever seen - she must be pushing 40.

How anyone can be male, straight, and not think Megan Fox is to die for...I really have no idea. She really is incredibly hot. One of the newest flavors of the moment that actually deserves to be up there.

QUOTE (Greywolf2375 @ Dec 21 2007, 11.08)

That was The Return of Optimus Prime - after marketing realized it was Bad Idea to kill off their cash cow.

Yeah, the spores shit was the annoying, awful retconning 'Return of Optimus Prime'. I got incredibly excited when I heard he was coming back permanent, but even as a kid fan I fricken hated that episode. But the episode before that with the Zombie Prime and the autobot graveyard was Dark Awakening, quite possibly the best and darkest Transformers cartoon ever made in the series run. If the animation hadn't been fairly shoddy, there wouldn't be any argument. But that episode ended with Optimus alone, near destroyed, and in a disabled ship that was barreling towards a sun. 'Return' simply ignored that fact when the scientists found a disabled, but in much better repair Optimus and brought him back.