QUOTE (EnlightenmentHK @ Dec 5 2004, 17.53)

They do not reason, they do not think, if they feel pain, I don't particularly care.

You don't know what you are talking about. Do me a favour, if you intend to continue this conversation, do so with some knowledge first. Don't open your yap when you obviously haven't done any research.

Dolphins DO reason, they DO think, and they DO feel pain retard.

QUOTE (yamis @ Dec 6 2004, 00.48)

its the bible due to the word of Atkins.

serouisly guys, calm down. so people have a hankering for some dolphin meat. its not harming the envionment, and its not driving the species to extinction. of all the things going on in this fucked up world right now, dolphins are not a major concern.

It's just as important as any oyther animal slaughter happening. And yes, killing animals is a major concern. If we don't make sure we keep animals around our environment will change, the ecosystem of the world requires animals of all different kinds to support life, including humans.

The utter lack of knowledge around here is amazing. Some of you are just plain ignorant. (Not all, mind you)

QUOTE (silverstreak @ Dec 6 2004, 09.47)

Of course not, that wasn't what I said. Can you read? I mean, come on, this is happening and it's wrong it doesn't matter if it's part of the culture. Eating Dolphin or Monkey would be like eating children, it's wrong. You are killing one intelligent creature for no good reason. That's what is wrong about it. It's time barbaric things like this stopped.

Your first post said the Japanese were killing dolphins to satisfy their appetites for dolphin sushi. *shrug*

You're not going to make a very good case for flaming people and calling them ignorant because they do not agree with you.

No one likes to have someone else's morality forced on them.

QUOTE (EnlightenmentHK @ Dec 5 2004, 23.07)

I must have missed that passage Wonkimus. Not that I've ever read the book.

I don't remember the exact quote but the bible say something along the lines of the other animals and such were put on earth for humans to use at the beginning of Genesis. Many in the religeous right in the US use this quote to justify the crual exploitation of other animals as you describe.

QUOTE (Wonkimus_Major @ Dec 6 2004, 10.08)

No one likes to have someone else's morality forced on them.

Other's morality? What planet do you live on? The planet of the cruel and inhumane?

I know what I said in my first post. That was not what I responding too.

And if people are going to be ignorant and retarded to the world around them, they deserve to be flamed for it. It's people like that, that are the reason the world is in the state it is in.

QUOTE (silverstreak @ Dec 6 2004, 09.50)

You don't know what you are talking about. Do me a favour, if you intend to continue this conversation, do so with some knowledge first. Don't open your yap when you obviously haven't done any research.

Would you care to address the rest of the arguments in the post? No? Still hung up on dolphins being caring and peace-loving individuals? Thats funny, I don't recall you posting any research to prove that. Or any argument, logical or otherwise, besides your blanket declaration. So I'm supposed to take your word for it? Fanatics are fun sometimes in their blind, single-minded obsessions. I'd toy with you a bit more, but don't have the heart to.

QUOTE (silverstreak @ Dec 6 2004, 09.47)

Of course not, that wasn't what I said. Can you read? I mean, come on, this is happening and it's wrong it doesn't matter if it's part of the culture. Eating Dolphin or Monkey would be like eating children, it's wrong. You are killing one intelligent creature for no good reason. That's what is wrong about it. It's time barbaric things like this stopped.

Ok, I lied...so in your infinite wisdom you've just declared all societies who have historically (and presently) used monkey's or dolphins as a part of their regular diet as barbaric cannibals. Kind of arrogant of you, no? What makes your culture so superior in that regard? Hindu's revere cows and believe their slaughter for meals to be equally barbaric, why don't we use their arbitrary standards instead of yours? What makes their position invalid and yours written in stone? Humanity can kill for purpose any animals except the ones you like? At what point did you become the fountain of truth for all that is good and just in the world?

QUOTE (SAJse @ Dec 6 2004, 09.18)

I found that comment quite distasteful. How could you not have empathy for a creature in pain?

Because I understand that a creature's pain (many of them) is essential for the daily survival of myself and my society. So I don't get too hung up on something that is unlikely to change and which I have no intention to change.

QUOTE (SAJse @ Dec 6 2004, 09.18)

And no, I'm not vegetarian and I don't doubt that some of the meat products I eat come from sources that don't respect or sympathise with the animals they're in charge of. Though to say I don't care if an animal feels pain would make me just as cruel as said sources.

No, you're not cruel. A hypocrite maybe, but not cruel. You probably know the relative horrors that animals go through whether for medical testing or the slaughtering process and do nothing about it, yet claim to care. Myself, I realize what they go through. I realize that even if I cared to change it, my actions likely would not. And I enjoy the fruits of that exploitation too much to want to change it. So I don't bother my conscience all that much with the inevitable and often beneficial. I simply don't express impotent sympathy when it does no good.

QUOTE (silverstreak @ Dec 6 2004, 09.54)

It's just as important as any oyther animal slaughter happening. And yes, killing animals is a major concern. If we don't make sure we keep animals around our environment will change, the ecosystem of the world requires animals of all different kinds to support life, including humans.

You presented absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the small scale, selective capture/slaughter that you mentioned in any way endangers the population of the animal or the ecosystem as a whole. As I stated, if you did, perhaps you would have a legitimate argument...as it stands, you didn't...and you don't.

QUOTE (silverstreak @ Dec 6 2004, 10.35)

And if people are going to be ignorant and retarded to the world around them, they deserve to be flamed for it. It's people like that, that are the reason the world is in the state it is in.

And Silverstreak, you do continue to amuse me. I'm suddenly the reason that the world is in the state its in? Are you listening to yourself? You have yet to make a single, coherent argument backed by any evidence whatsoever, and I'm (or we're) suddenly ignorant for the capital offense of disagreeing with you? This is rich. Find another subject. Your fanaticism has blinded you from the fact that other reasonable opinions can and do exist.

Again, you seriously need to grow up and learn a great deal. you want proof on how smart dolphins are, I've done the research moron, now do us a favour and do some yourself instead of trying to get everyone to do it for you. Lazy.

I also did not say YOU were the reason the world was in the state it is in, I said people like you, again, I constantly get the feeling you don't know how to either 1) Read, or 2) comprehend what you read.

you want research:

look it up yourself, read a book, use the internet for something besides shooting your mouth off.

I can't stand it when people say humans are evil and other animals are good and pure.

BTW Silverstreak, are you mad because in Korea they eat dogs?

No I'm not, it's sick, like most Asian cultures are when it comes to eating various animals.

Certain animals were created to be food for humans, certain others weren't.

I also never said humans were evil, but let's look at it this way, animals don't create bombs, biological weapons, guns, polute the environment or kill their own kind for pleasure or vengance. Need I go on?

Humans (us, all of us) destroy a piece of the earth everyday just by existing. Everyone adds to the polution or to the problem whether they mean to or not. But some do it more than others. Some of us try to slow or stop this, I am one of those people. I recycle, I try to help as best I can.

Do you?

Ignorance is only overshadowed by stupidity and most of the time both are found together. (Usually in great abundance)

Settle down, man! No matter how uninformed you think others are, you are not supporting your case by name-calling.

Imagine writing a scientific report, and instead of presenting your evidence, you just say anyone who does not agree with your conclusion is a buffoon. How much respect do you think you'd get? Remember Danbei? Remember why everyone hated him?

It wouldn't be a problem if some people didn't come here to do nothing but insult what I am trying to accomplish. If you read the inital post I did not demand or force my opinion on anyone, I simply brought an atrocity to view that many I am sure had not seen or heard about.

I was then described as a dolphin humping hippie of sorts by those of obviously less educated stance than myself about how stupid my cause was.

So remember, I did not start the name calling, but i will finish it if anyone continues it. People who care little about the suffering of animals are not far from those who care little of suffering to people. (usually they become one and the same)

QUOTE (silverstreak @ Dec 6 2004, 13.56)

Again, you seriously need to grow up and learn a great deal. you want proof on how smart dolphins are, I've done the research moron, now do us a favour and do some yourself instead of trying to get everyone to do it for you. Lazy.

If you've done some research, perhaps you can share it with us. You're the one who started this all. You're the one who's trying to use non-existant research to prove an argument. So it is incumbant upon you to produce it if you want us to assume that your assertions are anything but pure bullshit. You're really quite poor at this whole debate thing, perhaps you need a few lessons.

QUOTE (silverstreak @ Dec 6 2004, 13.56)

I also did not say YOU were the reason the world was in the state it is in, I said people like you

Ahhh...not me but people like me. My humblest apologies for not figuring out that obvious nuance. I'm so comforted that I'm not destroying the world, but myself and anyone like me is. Makes me feel so much better. Get a grip.

QUOTE (silverstreak @ Dec 6 2004, 14.04)

No I'm not, it's sick, like most Asian cultures are when it comes to eating various animals . Certain animals were created to be food for humans, certain others weren't.

So why do you get to decide which ones are meals and which ones are buddies? Who granted you that power? I didn't elect you king of the animal kingdom? And why the hatred of Asian cultures? They're suddenly wrong simply because they're perceptions are different from yours? Wouldn't happen to be a bit of a racist would you? Or just a cultural elitist?

Don't know why I bother because you'll predictably avoid the entire argument (since you can't win it), reply with a single line that were supposed to accept as god given fact, than go about your ranting way. Here's a new one for you, when someone asks a question...perhaps try answering it. When a person makes an argument that opposes yours, perhaps try addressing it in a logical and reasonable manner? Not too hard is it?

QUOTE (silverstreak @ Dec 6 2004, 14.04)

I also never said humans were evil, but let's look at it this way, animals don't create bombs, biological weapons, guns, polute the environment or kill their own kind for pleasure or vengance. Need I go on?

Humans aren't evil but we destroy the world? And noone's more evil than those evil little slant-eyed's, have I got your opinions right? So no you're an arrogant, racist cultural elitist who doubles as a self-loathing man-hater.

Seriously though, animals don't make bombs. They simply eat their young (some of them), prey on the weak, lick their own a$$holes, repopulate, and begin the process anew. They are creatures governed by instinct, they cannot reason, they are not sentient, they cannot build societies or civiliations. They are constructs of their biology and cannot escape that. To say they haven't created bombs or war as some sort of praise for them is really kind of silly. Just as silly as indicting them for not producing Shakespeare, Van Gogh's, Hoover Dam's or Pyramids. They're animals, they cannot create that which their biology has not already pre-determined for them.

Silverstreak, your tactic is really counter-productive. You make an argument without the support of reason or evidence. You declare anyone who disagrees with you to be ignorant, stupid, and uninformed. You fling insults like a petulant little 3rd grader. And fail to see why noone is jumping on board.

Your demeanor is condescending, your method insulting, and your inability to make a coherent argument or back up the arbitrary declarations you have made speak volumes as to your intellect.

Trust me, animals indeed DO kill each other for the sheer hell of it sometimes. And yes, many eat their own young. I know lions will kill the young of their new mate to insure the strenght of their own bloodline. Non-human animals don't make bombs, but that's just because the don't have opposable thumbs and a complex language. Otherwise, who knows.

Silvie, I really don't get why you want to even post this stuff on a *Transformers* website. You'd get a much better response on Craig's List or some such thing.

And for the record I personally am against killing whales and animal cruelty. I will not do these things myself. But I also respect others' way of life. Why aren't you in an uproar about Eskimos killing seals and narwhals?

If I am condescending, you brought it on.

Second, I'm not racist, and I didn't say anything racist about asians. I really enjoy how you seem to enjoy putting words in mouth that aren't even there to begin with, you truely are no good at this.

Research, hmmmmm, suddenly I need to produce it. I see your just to lazy to look something up yourself, heaven forbid you may have to read a book.... That might constitute effort on your part and we can all see how good you are at reading and comprehension.

No I am not the one who needs to produce research, I did not bring this to people's attention for that purpose, but you have totally destroyed the good intentions this thread originally had by your insulting demeanor and lack of understanding.

I have nothing I need to produce, you are the one who needs the education on the subject, go look it up, it isn't hard to find stop being so lazy. You can start with talking to people at Seaworld or the Dolphin Research Center, but I imagine even they would tire of your attitude like I have. Hell, open a damn encyclopedia and read about it.

I pity people like you who have no compassion for other creatures and think of themselves first. Let's hope people like you don't survive the next ice age.

QUOTE (Wonkimus_Major @ Dec 6 2004, 15.02)

Silvie, I really don't get why you want to even post this stuff on a Transformers website. You'd get a much better response on Craig's List or some such thing.

I only did it to make people aware who might actually have some compassion, unfortunately it seems some people would rather insult those who try to do some good rather than just read the message and perhaps pass it on.

QUOTE (Wonkimus_Major @ Dec 6 2004, 15.02)

Why aren't you in an uproar about Eskimos killing seals and narwhals?

Because neither of those are intelligent, they don't actually have self awareness, and at least eskimos, like native americans actually find a use for the whole animal instead of just a piece of it.

QUOTE (silverstreak @ Dec 6 2004, 17.48)

If I am condescending, you brought it on.

Thats right, all of your personal failings are my fault. Got it.

QUOTE (silverstreak @ Dec 6 2004, 17.48)

Second, I'm not racist, and I didn't say anything racist about asians. I really enjoy how you seem to enjoy putting words in mouth that aren't even there to begin with, you truely are no good at this.

QUOTE (silverstreak @ Dec 6 2004, 14.04)

No I'm not, it's sick, like most Asian cultures are when it comes to eating various animals.

QUOTE (silverstreak @ Nov 30 2004, 19.41)

Less than a month ago, 100 Bottlenose dolphins were senseless slaughtered because these sick people like to eat dolphin sushi

QUOTE (silverstreak @ Dec 3 2004, 13.36)

All I want to do is try to create some awareness to the atrocities countries like Japan are allowed to get away with.

QUOTE (silverstreak @ Dec 3 2004, 13.36)

People in asia have no respect for nature, this is proven by the huge amount of endangered animals there and the things like this dolphin sushi hunt that goes on.

QUOTE (silverstreak @ Dec 6 2004, 09.47)

Eating Dolphin or Monkey would be like eating children, it's wrong.

You're not racist (though you missed the part where I declared you a cultural elitist instead of an out and out racist), but most Asian cultures are sick because they disagree with you. You're not racist, but those asian countries are committing atrocities...simply because you say they are. You're not racist, but those lil slant-eyed's have no respect for nature!!...and they're cannibals!!

Yeah, save it. Do you actually read this drivel before you post it?

QUOTE (silverstreak @ Dec 6 2004, 17.48)

Research, hmmmmm, suddenly I need to produce it. I see your just to lazy to look something up yourself.

I'll keep this simple because you are apparently not getting it. You (not me, not wonk, not SAJe) made the claim that you want us to accept as fact. When people make disputed claims in a debate, they must provide evidence to prove their claim. It is not my job to prove your hypothesis for you. I did not make the claim. If there is loads of research out there, than it should be fairly easy for you.

You don't quite understand how these things work. You cannot say, 'Hey, the world is flat, prove me wrong!!'. You say, 'The world is this way, this is why, and this research backs me up.' I would hate to be one of your professors in college.

QUOTE (silverstreak @ Dec 6 2004, 17.48)

No I am not the one who needs to produce research, I did not bring this to people's attention for that purpose

No, you brought up an issue that you want to be everyones issue. You can't seem to understand why not everyone wants to make it their issue. You have declared everyone who disagrees to be either sick or stupid. You have offered no evidence or logical argument to suggest that this small scale killing/capture is disrupting the eco-system in any major way. Nor any other reason for why we should care beyond your single-minded, deluded convictions.

QUOTE (silverstreak @ Dec 6 2004, 17.48)

I only did it to make people aware who might actually have some compassion, unfortunately it seems some people would rather insult those who try to do some good rather than just read the message and perhaps pass it on.

And you mistakenly believe that those who disagree with you have no compassion. And complain of others insulting you...when thats essentially all you've done since your second post. And no, you're not just relaying a message.

In your first post, you imply that if people had any compassion, they'd join your crusade. You accuse the Japanese of atrocities and call them cruel and oppressive. Than go on to declare them sick. You solicit for worldwide protests. No, there's alot more than a simple message there. And whether you are trying to 'do good', well thats a subjective standard. Some might believe that the relatively small number being killed, coupled with the purposes involved (scientific research and zoo's) might in the long run produce more good than keeping those 100 dolphins in the eco-system would. But no, in your mind, they're just sick and evil.

Your single-minded fanaticism skews your perspective and prevents you from comprehending any semblence of a bigger picture. Your lack of critical thought evidenced in your absolutist (and often baseless) declarations damages the credibility of your every statement. And your rather abbhorrent personality likely alienates those who otherwise might be on board. You're a poor soldier for your cause.

But once more, most of this is wasted on you. Understanding beyond 'Dolphins good, humans (especially asians) bad!' is not within your grasp. You view any criticism as a personal indictment. You cannot articulate why we should care (or if you can, you don't bother. Naturally assuming that anyone who doesn't come on board is a sick and twisted deviant). Your arguments are incredibly simplistic and incredibly flawed. And yet you seem oblivious to it all. Perhaps ignorance is bliss.

Whatever, I'm done debating with you, blow me.

You never started dipshit. A minimal education should be required before imbeciles start taking up causes.

Wow, tell me something asshole, did you figure out all those big fancy 1 and 2 syllable words with that 140 IQ or did your mommy write them for you?

Blow off.